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Author Topic: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?  (Read 11220 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2018, 05:11:47 PM »
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  • The American resistance seems to have aligned itself with at least one heretical Feenyite chapel. The CMRI chapels I’ve been to have signs posted advising that they will not allow non-Catholic Feenyites to receive the sacraments. So the CMRI is a much safer course in the U.S. if you wish to remain Catholic.

    Who in particular has aligned with which "Feeneyite" chapel?  You toss the term heretical around too freely.  Father Feeney's distinction between justification and salvation has never been condemned.  And at best one could argue that BoD is theologically certain but not de fide.  I don't agree it's even that ... but the bar for heresy is very high.  Yet Father Feeney does not reject BoD per se but states that it suffices for justification but not salvation.  Disagree if you will, but that position has never been condemned.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #76 on: August 01, 2018, 05:40:33 PM »
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  • That article is in the library, go read it!   The title was not there's it was the authors.
    You know that because I posted this truth about the article.  It offends God and He is crucified again when people deceive.

    Where's the deception?  I quite clearly wrote that the CMRI "published" the article.  What's deceptive is publishing and promoting an article with a title that contradicts Catholic dogma and presenting it as Catholic teaching.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #77 on: August 01, 2018, 05:55:51 PM »
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  • I, without any hesitation, support the Congregatio Mariae Reginae Immaculatae (CMRI)

    http://CMRI.org

    Tell us something we don't already know.  By far the most virulent despisers of EENS have ties to the CMRI ... only to be rivaled by the SSPV.  Even apart from the doctrinal issues, how can anyone "support without hesitation" a group with such utterly sordid beginnings, founded by an admitted perpetrator of sins against nature, a culture which initially permeated their clergy ... not to mention the cult-like practices and intercommunion with schismatic Old Catholics?

    Offline Merry

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #78 on: August 01, 2018, 07:58:44 PM »
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  • CMRI just expelled a priest who could not go along with their support of NFP, among other things?

    They even sent him to a shrink to get him to "behave."  Pleasant Marxist technique.
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #79 on: August 02, 2018, 03:30:47 PM »
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  • Where's the deception?  I quite clearly wrote that the CMRI "published" the article.  What's deceptive is publishing and promoting an article with a title that contradicts Catholic dogma and presenting it as Catholic teaching.
    The point is, you desire to guide readers to assume that CMRI agrees with the Title as written. 
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    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #80 on: August 02, 2018, 05:20:03 PM »
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  • Tell us something we don't already know.  By far the most virulent despisers of EENS have ties to the CMRI ... only to be rivaled by the SSPV.  Even apart from the doctrinal issues, how can anyone "support without hesitation" a group with such utterly sordid beginnings, founded by an admitted perpetrator of sins against nature, a culture which initially permeated their clergy ... not to mention the cult-like practices and intercommunion with schismatic Old Catholics?
    What?  No Catholic despises the truth of EENS, especially myself and CMRI.  I simply expect BoD to be understood as the Church teaches, in concert with EENS (as opposed to those that would have one contradict the other).

    As for the beginnings of this organization, those short comings have been addressed and resolved.

    I very much enjoy the religious of CMRI, and hold in high regard Bishop Pivarunas.  

    http://cmri.org/sedevac.htm




    Omnes pro Christo

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #81 on: August 02, 2018, 06:16:50 PM »
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  • Quote
    Lads logic is flawed he says "Tell us something we don't already know.  By far the most virulent despisers of EENS have ties to the CMRI ... only to be rivaled by the SSPV.  Even apart from the doctrinal issues, how can anyone "support without hesitation" a group with such utterly sordid beginnings, founded by an admitted perpetrator of sins against nature, a culture which initially permeated their clergy ... not to mention the cult-like practices and intercommunion with schismatic Old Catholics?"
      He seems to forget that Jesus Christ handpicked Judas.  CMRI's beginnings began when Vatican II left them staying firm to the teachings they have learned from the beginning as did other groups scattered.  Yet, Lad clings to the idea that somewhere there has to be a head, he doesn't know where but somewhere in his fantasy because he forgets that Jesus Christ is the head of His church, and the Popes are His representatives on earth, he forgets that a doubtful pope is no pope, yet he clings to his mirage. 
     
    Traditional Catholic pray the Act of Faith with their rosary, yet many ignore the words "I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches because Thou hast revealed them, Who canst neither deceive nor be deceived."

    Yet, these Catholic's dare to speak with disdain about CMRI.    

    They prefer to accept a Pope who deceives.  According to them, the Holy Ghost failed, the Church failed.  They recognize the man but resist the man, CMRI recognizes the Papacy ALWAYS, and because we recognize the Papacy there is nothing to resist.  
     
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    Offline SVincentL

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #82 on: August 06, 2018, 09:57:47 PM »
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  • Merry, as a long time CMRI supporter and the administrator of the CMRI Chapel for 20 years in Oklahoma City ( not to mention the irony that my some was asked to leave the seminary in Omaha over his anti-NFP stance; we are still close to the Bishop) I am beyond curious about who you are suggesting was removed from duty as a priest and sent to counseling over the NFP issue. Perhaps you misspoke or you are referring to some other group but this claim would be news to me. In the interest of squelching a simple misunderstanding could you please provide some further info on this claim when you can? Thanks in advance Merry.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #83 on: August 07, 2018, 12:48:21 AM »
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  • .
    Someone who thinks there is salvation outside the Church, someone who is coming from the Old Catholics (schismatics since Vat. I), and someone who rejects Francis as Pope, and who believes that BoD is a dogma of the Faith and belief in which is more necessary than in EENS, is welcome at CMRI.
    .
    But anyone who dares to hold that BoD is theological speculation (verifiably the truth) and not de fide, who is opposed to NFP as a matter of principle, or who assists at Mass in any chapel that could be called "Feeneyite" (by any number of criteria!) is automatically persona non grata at the CMRI sites. They have other forbidden topics as well. These are a sample thereof.
    .
    In my experience, CMRI groupies are all too eager to pick a fight with a visitor over the question of valid episcopal consecrations or valid priestly ordinations. They are all too prepared to go toe-to-toe against someone who dares to question certain things, some of which are of little or no importance such as BoD, while they consistently ignore our need to pray for the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary -- even though they pretend to promote the (edited) Message of Fatima and the Queenship of Mary Immaculate (to whose Heart they deny awaits the consecration of Russia). One has to wonder if Bishop Mark Pivarunas were given the opportunity to consecrate Russia to the IHM together with the Pope and other bishops of the world, whether he would refuse. They interrupt conversations, acting like Communist informants, in an effectively de facto effort to control freedom of speech within property limits. This is made obvious by the fact that their priest will later approach you and request a private meeting in the back office, when he will inform you that certain things cannot be discussed on their property, which see, and if you don't conform to this rule, you will be forbidden from attending the chapel. That is because the priest was informed by one of his groupies of the conversation you were having with a friend.
    .
    Their behavior is far more like a trepidatious cult than like a truly Catholic group.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Merry

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #84 on: August 07, 2018, 08:14:30 AM »
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  • SvincentL - PM
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #85 on: August 07, 2018, 08:20:33 AM »
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  • Neil Obstat's theory above is questionable and unproven.

    By their fruits, you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles?" [Matthew 7:16]
    Neil Obstat prefers the thorns and thistles of Francis proven by his written sass and foolish assumptions of how CMRI would act in a given situation.
    Those of grace reading would earnestly and humbly pray this month to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for Truth.  Those who refuse to do so will answer to God for their rejection for there is No Salvation Outside the Church. 
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #86 on: August 07, 2018, 08:36:45 AM »
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  • .
    Someone who thinks there is salvation outside the Church, someone who is coming from the Old Catholics (schismatics since Vat. I), and someone who rejects Francis as Pope, and who believes that BoD is a dogma of the Faith and belief in which is more necessary than in EENS, is welcome at CMRI.
    .
    But anyone who dares to hold that BoD is theological speculation (verifiably the truth) and not de fide, who is opposed to NFP as a matter of principle, or who assists at Mass in any chapel that could be called "Feeneyite" (by any number of criteria!) is automatically persona non grata at the CMRI sites. They have other forbidden topics as well. These are a sample thereof.
    .
    In my experience, CMRI groupies are all too eager to pick a fight with a visitor over the question of valid episcopal consecrations or valid priestly ordinations. They are all too prepared to go toe-to-toe against someone who dares to question certain things, some of which are of little or no importance such as BoD, while they consistently ignore our need to pray for the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary -- even though they pretend to promote the (edited) Message of Fatima and the Queenship of Mary Immaculate (to whose Heart they deny awaits the consecration of Russia). One has to wonder if Bishop Mark Pivarunas were given the opportunity to consecrate Russia to the IHM together with the Pope and other bishops of the world, whether he would refuse. They interrupt conversations, acting like Communist informants, in an effectively de facto effort to control freedom of speech within property limits. This is made obvious by the fact that their priest will later approach you and request a private meeting in the back office, when he will inform you that certain things cannot be discussed on their property, which see, and if you don't conform to this rule, you will be forbidden from attending the chapel. That is because the priest was informed by one of his groupies of the conversation you were having with a friend.
    .
    Their behavior is far more like a trepidatious cult than like a truly Catholic group.
    Neil, As to the matter of salvation outside of the Church, I will simply say that you can be treated exactly the same way at some SSPX Chapels whose doctrinal position is exactly the same and some of the laity are as fanatic about it as sedes. All SSPX clerics are BoD believers and those who might stray are quickly done away with. They all get there doctrinal orientation from the Archbishop and thus they have been formed in these ideas. There is no where that a Catholic can go to be trained in the true dogmatic Catholic Faith. It is a sad state of affairs.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #87 on: August 07, 2018, 09:25:13 AM »
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  • The CMRI, generally speaking, supports NFP.  So if Feeneyites are 'non catholic' because they hold a view which is (according to you) heretical, then the CMRI is both heretical AND PAGAN, because NFP violates both Church law and natural law.  ...This is your extremist logic applied equally... 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #88 on: August 07, 2018, 09:25:20 AM »
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  • The point is, you desire to guide readers to assume that CMRI agrees with the Title as written.

    I stated the fact that the CMRI published this heretical-sounding article twice.  Readers can draw their own conclusions.  Whether the CMRI agree with it or not doesn't matter.  Had they disagreed with it, of course, they could have simply added an editorial footnote.  Yet the fact is that they published it.  It's just as reprehensible as if they had printed an article questioning the perpetual virginity of Mary ... even if they didn't "agree with" it.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is a CMRI chapel a reasonable substitute for a Resistance Mass?
    « Reply #89 on: August 07, 2018, 09:30:53 AM »
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  • What?  No Catholic despises the truth of EENS, especially myself and CMRI.

    That's not even close to being the truth.  In fact, in the modern era, the vast majority of so-called Catholics actively despise the dogma EENS, especially yourself and the CMRI.  You CLAIM that you do not despise it because the version that you do not despise is the one where you interpret it away to mean nearly the opposite of what it says.  You do not despise your own interpretation of it, and so in your mind you do not despise it.  But in fact you despise the dogma as it was meant and intended by the Popes who defined it.

    Get this straight.  Nobody goes on a crusade, such as you and the CMRI and other CMRI folks here on CI, in promotion of BoD for the rare hypothetical possibility that some catechumen who died without the Sacrament could somehow be saved.  You promote BoD as some kind of super-dogma precisely because you see it as a tool with which to undermine the strict meaning of EENS as taught by the Church.  That's why it's such a big deal to you and the object of so much passion.