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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: StLouisIX on July 23, 2023, 07:46:08 AM

Title: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: StLouisIX on July 23, 2023, 07:46:08 AM
Here are the findings of a team of faithful traditional Catholic laymen on the subject of the Divine Mercy devotion according to Sr. Faustina. This project has been years in the making, and has been approved by SSPX clergy for release to the general public. It is a lengthy presentation (about 2.5 hours long) split up into three parts:

- The History of Poland and the Ideology of Polish Messianism

- The History of the Divine Mercy Devotion

- The Theological Issues with the Divine Mercy Devotion

That being said, I hope the information here will be of great help to everyone on this forum.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQacQHHgtPA


Additionally, here is a separate series of videos produced by one of the presenters further exploring the history of the Polish Messianist ideology, its correlation to Modernism and influence on the "Divine Mercy" devotion. It is not yet complete, but so far there are three videos he has uploaded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW86LRSItdI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c474zWJ5JcE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au2wZviQLeU

Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Marulus Fidelis on July 23, 2023, 09:56:50 AM
This project has been years in the making, and has been approved by SSPX clergy for release to the general public. 
HAHAHAHAHAHA :jester:

Do these laymen think they need approval from Menzingen to publish this? More proof that the SSPX acts like a parallel hierarchy with ordinary jurisdiction. I also know of a layman who wrote a book and then asked his priest permission to publish, which he denied him.

You can't choose your authorities people... 
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Marulus Fidelis on July 23, 2023, 10:03:30 AM
So... who's this two and a half hour video for? Those of us who already know it's wrong? I will watch it and it sounds interesting but ood luck trying to get a Novus Ordite to sit through a presentation on Polish history.

Also, only the last 20 minutes are about the core issues. Sounds like this was a hobby project and not done with the goal of converting people.

Thank God MHFM already did the hard work of destroying the divine mercy deception in a powerful and concise format: 
https://youtu.be/quQb-vyM9Cw
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Marulus Fidelis on July 23, 2023, 10:11:52 AM
I scanned the docuмentary and saw none of the outrageous quotes like Faustina's unity with God being greater than the first of the Seraphs, etc. after years of research. I'm disappointed. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything too controversial from the SSPX, seems like their actually avoiding the core issues of the devotion. My bet is their "hierarchy" censored their work and they wanted to do the right thing initially. Who knows.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: ArnoArcand on July 23, 2023, 12:08:35 PM
So... who's this two and a half hour video for? Those of us who already know it's wrong? I will watch it and it sounds interesting but ood luck trying to get a Novus Ordite to sit through a presentation on Polish history.

Also, only the last 20 minutes are about the core issues. Sounds like this was a hobby project and not done with the goal of converting people.

Thank God MHFM already did the hard work of destroying the divine mercy deception in a powerful and concise format:
https://youtu.be/quQb-vyM9Cw
1st Portion-The important piece in that part is Polish Messianism.  Given its connections to Polish Romanticism, it clearly had a liberal twist given that it drew most of its influence from the French and its revolutionary doctrines (Miekiewicz being tied to the Occult and Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ) There is a well-known quote that JPII uses of Mikiewicz.

2nd Portion-Is probably the most important part of the video.  If you watch anything at all, I would suggest that, as it shows the movers and shakers behind the devotion.  This as far as I am aware is not well known if at all.

3rd Portion-Is just rehash of things many doctrinal errors that people are already aware of; so it didn't get into that much depth.  The Dimond Bros did a wonderful job of covering that.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Marulus Fidelis on July 23, 2023, 12:21:31 PM
1st Portion-The important piece in that part is Polish Messianism.  Given its connections to Polish Romanticism, it clearly had a liberal twist given that it drew most of its influence from the French and its revolutionary doctrines (Miekiewicz being tied to the Occult and Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ) There is a well-known quote that JPII uses of Mikiewicz.

2nd Portion-Is probably the most important part of the video.  If you watch anything at all, I would suggest that, as it shows the movers and shakers behind the devotion.  This as far as I am aware is not well known if at all.

3rd Portion-Is just rehash of things many doctrinal errors that people are already aware of; so it didn't get into that much depth.  The Dimond Bros did a wonderful job of covering that.
I look forward to looking at the history but I'm just wondering why the creators made the video as they did. If Novus Ordites are their target audience it failed miserably. If I am the target audience, great.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 23, 2023, 12:48:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Y65UpK5.jpg)
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 23, 2023, 12:49:44 PM
It’s been watered down to for the sake of “his” sorrowful passion….

Someone posted that second to the Mass is the Stations of the Cross.  

Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 23, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
Most of the people praying the prayer are huge disappointments. They are for abortion and sodomy.

Too much false “mercy” for pedophiles. There should be more repentance. 

Also, Divine Mercy Sunday is taking over   Easter which the main Feast DaY.  
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 23, 2023, 12:59:31 PM
I look forward to looking at the history but I'm just wondering why the creators made the video as they did. If Novus Ordites are their target audience it failed miserably. If I am the target audience, great.
Dear Marulus Fidelis, I was one of the people who was involved in the research for this project and can explain.  The presentation was put together for priests in the SSPX as many Novus Ordos are coming into the SSPX and bringing the devotion with them.  The priests have not been sure how to respond to the devotion and have been divided.  So the target audience for this presentation was not the average Novus Ordo.  This is why the focus was on providing context for why the devotion is a problem - the history of Poland and the problems we have found in the standard narrative that is used to promote the devotion.

MHFM video on the Divine Mercy is excellent.  I wish I was capable of producing such well edited videos.

I don't believe Novus Ordos will drop the devotion by simply quoting the heresies in the diary.  Because their obsession is with the image and the chaplet.  They will rationalise the claim of heresy to be that you are taking things out of context and the Church approved it so it must be fine.  By showing the lies in the narrative and the bad characters of the promoters, I believe it will open them up to questioning if the diary really came by Godly inspiration. 

Our research has come much further since that initial presentation, and is really exposing how the apostasy in the Vatican 2 Church came about which had its beginnings with the lies of WW2.

I plan to put together a revised timeline of the devotion that is more extensive with the updated research, but will break it up into shorter video clips so the average person does not have to sit through one two-hour long video. 

I hope this clears things up. 
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 23, 2023, 01:26:25 PM
It’s been watered down to for the sake of “his” sorrowful passion….

Someone posted that second to the Mass is the Stations of the Cross. 
It's not just watered down. It changes the meaning.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Marulus Fidelis on July 23, 2023, 01:29:18 PM
Dear Marulus Fidelis, I was one of the people who was involved in the research for this project and can explain.  The presentation was put together for priests in the SSPX as many Novus Ordos are coming into the SSPX and bringing the devotion with them.  The priests have not been sure how to respond to the devotion and have been divided.  So the target audience for this presentation was not the average Novus Ordo.  This is why the focus was on providing context for why the devotion is a problem - the history of Poland and the problems we have found in the standard narrative that is used to promote the devotion.

MHFM video on the Divine Mercy is excellent.  I wish I was capable of producing such well edited videos.

I don't believe Novus Ordos will drop the devotion by simply quoting the heresies in the diary.  Because their obsession is with the image and the chaplet.  They will rationalise the claim of heresy to be that you are taking things out of context and the Church approved it so it must be fine.  By showing the lies in the narrative and the bad characters of the promoters, I believe it will open them up to questioning if the diary really came by Godly inspiration.

Our research has come much further since that initial presentation, and is really exposing how the apostasy in the Vatican 2 Church came about which had its beginnings with the lies of WW2.

I plan to put together a revised timeline of the devotion that is more extensive with the updated research, but will break it up into shorter video clips so the average person does not have to sit through one two-hour long video.

I hope this clears things up.
Thank you for explaining, now it makes sense!

I applaud your effort to educate SSPX priests on this dangerous deception.

I believe the best way to kill the devotion is to expose Faustina, her pride and heresies so I encourage you to recommend them MHFM's video as well.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 23, 2023, 01:59:07 PM
In novus Ordo, it is replacing Easter Sunday. 

I remember being upset ( before tradition)  saying something to the  priest that it wasn’t right for this feast to take over Easter.  It is being celebrated to wipe out Easter.  Look at the lockdowns.  They prevented Easter which is a high holy day bigger than Christmas.  

In our area, we have long time traditionalists praying the chapelet along with the luminous mysteries. 

Communists like to make changes.
Who was Sister Faustino’s spiritual director? 
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 23, 2023, 02:16:09 PM
Thank you for explaining, now it makes sense!

I applaud your effort to educate SSPX priests on this dangerous deception.

I believe the best way to kill the devotion is to expose Faustina, her pride and heresies so I encourage you to recommend them MHFM's video as well.
I think you should watch the middle part on the timeline of the development of the devotion.

New Devotions were banned in 1937.  I believe Fr. Sopocko is the originator of the devotion, not Faustina.  He was writing theological papers on the need for a feast of divine mercy, but he kept getting denied by Bishops and even the Vatican. I believe he wrote the Novena and Chaplet (which borrows from a previously condemned Chaplet of Mercy).

He realized he would need a supernatural revelation to win over the Bishops and Church to approve a Feast of Divine Mercy despite the ban.

Since this video, with the new research, I am being led to believe no nun named Faustina wrote a complete diary in the 1930s.  I believe it was starting to be cobbled together by the religious order Fr. Sopocko created during WW2.

Fr. Sopocko was working for the Polish military intelligence service in WW2, his female religious order was as well - part of the polish resistance.  There are so many heresies because it was written by young women with no Catholic religious training (like a 33 year old nun would of had if she had joined a convent in 1924 and died in 1938) or perhaps weren't even catholic, but Mariavites.

From my experience, Novus Ordos don't really care about heresy, and certainly won't listen to SSPXers or sedevacantists accuse it of heresy because we are "schismatic".  They are emotionally attached to the myth of Faustina, because of all the emotional propaganda that has been used on them by the word "Mercy".  So they feel they are showing mercy to faustina by defending her reputation which the don't even know. Afterall you attacking a poor, barely educated nun who could hardly read and write, its mean, it's bullying and unfair in their mind.  They don't really care what's in the diary, for them its about the chaplet.  

Go after the chaplet. Go after the people who promoted the devotion to show that they were not inspired by an uneducated nun's visions to promote the devotion, it inspired disobedience to the Church hierarchy.  Expose the lies in the narrative.  The narrative being a lie doesn't have the protection of the the Vatican 2 approval.

The excessive pride in Faustina's diary is due to Polish messianism and most likely written by someone who was a Mariavite or well acquainted with them. The Mariavites had female priests and gave communion under both species.  When you understand this, then you understand why the diary contains so many references to her holding the host in her hand, standing on the altar dispensing graces, holding sacred vessels and receiving communion under both species.  
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 23, 2023, 02:21:14 PM
In novus Ordo, it is replacing Easter Sunday. 

I remember being upset ( before tradition)  saying something to the  priest that it wasn’t right for this feast to take over Easter.  It is being celebrated to wipe out Easter.  Look at the lockdowns.  They prevented Easter which is a high holy day bigger than Christmas. 

In our area, we have long time traditionalists praying the chapelet along with the luminous mysteries. 

Communists like to make changes.
Who was Sister Faustino’s spiritual director?

According to the Diary, when Sister Faustina allegedly followed "Jesus'" instructions to try to get a Feast of Divine Mercy from the bishop, She was told by the Bishop there already was one - The Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross.

When you understand Polish messianism, you see they think they know better than the Church.  So they wanted people to forget about the Cross, replace the Holy Holy Rosary, and as you said, even Easter - why? Because Polish Pride, they wanted a feast day they could hang up as the most important day in the Church, and it was Polish.  They will knock everything down in the name of Polish Messianism.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Miseremini on July 23, 2023, 02:40:57 PM
Fr. Peter Scott covered this subject at length in 2010.

http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=2895
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 23, 2023, 03:37:56 PM
Fr. Peter Scott covered this subject at length in 2010.

http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=2895
Yes. Those of us involved in this project have read it as part of our research.  We didn't claim that the Divine Mercy diary has never been critiqued before.  And I wouldn't say he covered the subject "at length", it's a few paragraphs for a magazine article. 

And I'd said his criticism of the Divine Mercy image simply because it's not identical to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, seems more subjective than a legitimate criticism and misses the mark.  The Sacred Heart of Jesus is not the only image of Jesus in Catholic art.  I'm not sure if there is a rule for Catholic art that all images of Jesus must show an exposed heart and the wounds?

Fr. Scott doesn't cover that New Devotions were banned in 1937, so the priests involved should never have been promoting it in the first place way before the Vatican expressly banned it by name in 1958.  That kind of disobedience is what we see of the Vatican 2 sect, pretending as though the Church didn't exist before Vatican 2.

Fr. Scott doesn't cover that the divine mercy chaplet borrows from a previous chaplet, and that chaplet was banned.

We've gone much further to show the diabolical nature of the devotion, not merely "problematic". We are cover new ground that hasn't been touched before.  

What we've noticed as well is that all previous critiques presume everything else surrounding the devotion are true.  We call all just easily say "there is heresy" and that's the end of it, but Novus Ordoites will just chalk it up to that being an opinion of so-called schismatics that have some kind of intention in attacking what they see as one of the greatest devotions of the Catholic Church.  The Novus Ordo church is a reflections of the kinds of attitudes reflected in the diary, so they won't see it as heresy.  That's how far gone the minds of Novus Ordoites are.


Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Miseremini on July 23, 2023, 05:15:15 PM
3rd Portion-Is just rehash of things many doctrinal errors that people are already aware of;
I clicked thumbs up instead of quote.
Once people are aware of the doctrinal errors they don't need to waste time on the nitty gritty.
If you know something is poison you don't have to send it to a lab to be analysed.  Enough is known about Faustina to convince anyone with a brain.  The rest is a waste of precious time.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 23, 2023, 05:17:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Y65UpK5.jpg)
Why thumbs down? I only posted to show the difference in wording.  I found it in an old prayer book. 
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Soubirous on July 23, 2023, 06:17:11 PM
The excessive pride in Faustina's diary is due to Polish messianism and most likely written by someone who was a Mariavite or well acquainted with them. The Mariavites had female priests and gave communion under both species.  When you understand this, then you understand why the diary contains so many references to her holding the host in her hand, standing on the altar dispensing graces, holding sacred vessels and receiving communion under both species.

Interesting. I haven't yet watched the videos, so I apologize if this is covered in detail, but of note is that Pope St. Pius X in the Encyclical Tribus circiter (https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-x_enc_05041906_tribus-circiter.html) suppressed the Mariavite order in 1906.

Quote
TRIBUS CIRCITER

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X
 ON THE MARIAVITES OR MYSTIC PRIESTS OF POLAND
 TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN,
THE ARCHBISHOPS OF WARSAW, AND BISHOPS OF PLOTSK
 AND LUBLIN AMONG THE POLES

Venerable Brethren, Health and the Apostolic Benediction.
About three years ago this Apostolic See was duly informed that some priests, especially among the junior clergy of your dioceses, had founded, without permission from their lawful Superiors, a kind of pseudo-monastic society, known as the Mariavites or Mystic Priests, the members of which, little by little, turned aside from the right road and from the obedience they owe the Bishops "whom the Holy Ghost has placed to rule the Church of God," and became vain in their thoughts.
2. To a certain woman, whom they proclaimed to be most holy, marvelously endowed with heavenly gifts, divinely enlightened about many things, and providentially given for the salvation of a world about to perish, they did not hesitate to entrust themselves without reserve, and to obey her every wish.
3. Relying on an alleged mandate from God, they set themselves to promote without discrimination and of their own initiative among the people frequent exercises of piety (highly commendable when rightly carried out,) especially the adoration of the Most Holy Sacrament and the practice of frequent communion; but at the same time they made the gravest charges against all priests and bishops who ventured to express any doubt about the sanctity and divine election of the woman, or showed any hostility to the society of the Mariavites. Such a pass did matters reach that there was reason to fear that many of the faithful in their delusion were about to abandon their lawful pastors.
4. Hence, on the advice of Our Venerable Brethren the Cardinals of the General Inquisition, We had a decree issued, as you are aware, under date of September 4, 1904, suppressing the above-named society of priests, and commanding them to break off absolutely all relations with the woman. But the priests in question, notwithstanding that they signed a docuмent expressing their subjection to the authority of their bishops and that perhaps they did, as they say they did, partly break off their relations with the woman, still failed to abandon their undertaking and to renounce sincerely the condemned association. Not only did they condemn your exhortations and inhibitions, not only did many of them sign as audacious declaration in which they rejected communion with their bishops, not only in more places than one did they incite the deluded people to drive away their lawful pastors, but, like the enemies of the Church, asserted that she has fallen from truth and justice, and hence has been abandoned by the Holy Spirit, and that to themselves alone, the Mariavite priests, was it divinely given to instruct the faithful in true piety.
5. Nor is this all. A few weeks ago two of these priests came to Rome: Romanus Prochniewsky and Joannes Kowalski, the latter of whom is recognized, in virtue of some kind of delegation from the woman referred to, as their Superior by all the members of the Society. Both of them, in a petition alleged by them to have been written by the express order of Our Lord Jesus Christ, ask the Supreme Pastor of the Church, or the Congregation of the Holy Office in his name, to issue a docuмent conceived in these terms: "That Maria Francesca (the woman mentioned above) has been made most holy by God, that she is the mother of mercy for all men called and elected to salvation by God in these days; and that all Mariavite priests are commanded by God to promote throughout the world devotion to the Most Holy Sacrament and to the Blessed Virgin Mary of Perpetual Succor, free from all restriction of ecclesiastical or human law or custom, and from all ecclesiastical and human power whatsoever. . ."
6. From these words We were disposed to believe that the priests in question were blinded not so much by conscious pride as by ignorance and delusion, like those false prophets of whom Ezechiel writes: "They see vain things and they foretell lies, saying: The Lord saith: whereas the Lord hath not sent them: and they have persisted to confirm what they have said. Have you not seen a vain vision and spoken a lying divination: and you say: The Lord saith: whereas I have not spoken" (Ezechiel xiii. 6, 7). We therefore received them with piety, exhorted them to put away the deceits of vain revelation, to subject themselves and their works to the salutary authority of their Superiors, and to hasten the return of the faithful of Christ to the safe path of obedience and reverence towards their pastors; and finally to leave to the vigilance of the Holy See and the other competent authorities the task of confirming such pious customs as might seem best adapted for the fuller increase of Christian life in many parishes in your dioceses, and at the same time to admonish any priests who were found guilty of speaking abusively or contemptuously of devout practices and exercises approved by the Church. And We were consoled to see the two priests, moved by Our fatherly kindness, throw themselves at Our feet and express their firm resolution to carry out Our wishes with the devotedness of sons. They then caused to be transmitted to Us a written statement which increased Our hope that these deluded sons would sincerely abandon past illusions and return to the right road:
7. "We (these are their words), always ready to fulfill the will of God, which has now been made so clear to us by His Vicar, do most sincerely and joyfully revoke our letter, which we sent on February 1 of the present year to the Archbishop of Warsaw, and in which we declared that we separated from him. Moreover, we do most sincerely and with the greatest joy profess that we wish to be always united with our Bishops, and especially with the Archbishop of Warsaw, as far as your Holiness will order this of us. Furthermore, as we are now acting in the name of all the Mariavites, we do make this profession of our entire obedience and subjection in the name not only of all the Mariavites, but of all the Adorers of the Most Holy Sacrament. We make this profession in a special way in the name of the Mariavites of Plotsk who, for the same cause as the Mariavites of Warsaw, handed their Bishop a declaration of separation from him. Wherefore, all of us without exception prostrate at the feet of your Holiness, professing again and again our love and obedience to the Holy See, and in a most special way to your Holiness, most humbly ask pardon for any pain we may have caused your fatherly heart. Finally, we declare that we will at once set to work with all our energy to restore peace between the people and their Bishops immediately. Nay, we can affirm that this peace will be really restored very soon."
8. It was, therefore, very pleasant for Us to be able to believe that these sons of Ours, thus pardoned, would at once on their return to Poland give effect to their promises, and on this account We hastened to advise you, Venerable Brethren, to receive them and their companions, now that they professed entire obedience to your authority, with equal mercy and to restore them legally, if their acts corresponded with their promises, to their faculties for exercising their priestly functions.
But the event has deceived Our hopes; for We have learnt by recent docuмents that they have again opened their minds to lying revelations, and that since their return to Poland, they not only have not yet shown you, Venerable Brethren, the respect and obedience they promised, but that they have written to their companions a letter quite opposed to truth and genuine obedience.
9. But their profession of fidelity to the Vicar of Christ is vain in those who, in fact, do not cease to violate the authority of their Bishops. For "by far the most august part of the Church consists of the Bishops, (as Our Predecessor Leo XIII of holy memory wrote in his letter of December 17, 1888, to the Archbishop), inasmuch as this part by divine right teaches and rules men; hence, whoever resists them or pertinaciously refuses obedience to them puts himself apart from the Church. . . On the other hand, to pass judgment upon or to rebuke the acts of Bishops does not at all belong to private individuals - that comes within the province only of those higher than they in authority and especially of the Sovereign Pontiff, for to him Christ entrusted the charge of feeding not only His lambs, but His sheep throughout the world. At most, it is allowed in matters of grave complaint to refer the whole case to the Roman Pontiff, and this with prudence and moderation as zeal for the common good requires, not clamorously or abusively, for in this way dissensions and hostilities are bred, or certainly increased."
10. Idle and deceitful too is the exhortation of the priest Johannes Kowalski to his companions in error on behalf of peace, while he persists in his foolish talk and incitements to rebellion against legitimate pastors and in brazen violation of episcopal commands.
11. Wherefore, that the faithful of Christ and all the so-called Mariavite priests who are in good faith may no longer be led astray by the delusions of the woman above-mentioned and of the priest Johannes Kowalski, We again confirm the decree whereby the society of Mariavites, unlawfully and invalidly founded, is entirely suppressed, and We declare it suppressed and condemned, and We proclaim that the prohibition is still in force which forbids all priests, with the exception of the one whom the Bishop of Plotsk shall in his prudence depute to be her confessor, to have anything whatever to do on any pretext with the woman.
12. You, Venerable Brethren, We earnestly exhort to embrace with paternal charity erring priests immediately they sincerely repent, and not to refuse to call them again, under your direction, to their priestly duties, when they have been duly proved worthy. But should they, which may God forbid, reject your exhortations and persevere in their contumacy, it will be Our care to see that they are severely dealt with. Study to lead back to the right path the faithful of Christ who are now laboring under a delusion that may be pardoned; and foster in your dioceses those practices of piety, recently or long since approved in numerous docuмents issued by the Apostolic See, and do this with all the more alacrity now when by the blessing of God priests among you are enabled to exercise their ministry and the faithful to emulate the example of piety of their fathers.
13. Meanwhile as a pledge of heavenly favors and in evidence of Our paternal good will we bestow most lovingly in the Lord the Apostolic Benediction on you, Venerable Brethren, and on all the clergy and people entrusted to your care and vigilance.
Given at Rome, at St. Peter's, the fifth day of April, MDCCCCVI, in the third year of Our Pontificate.
PIUS X

The woman referred to but not named in several paragraphs above was probably Sr. Feliksa Kozłowska, another supposed visionary who openly disobeyed and split from her Franciscan mentor. So much for claiming a charism intended to imitate our Blessed Mother.

Forward to Faustina's time (with the usual caveats as to Wikpedia as a source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Franciszka_Kozłowska#Legacy_and_myth) for anything), we have:

Quote
Following the end of World War I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) the Second Polish Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Polish_Republic) was established. A rise in hostility toward them by the new government caused a decline in Mariavite fortunes and membership declined, with many returning to Catholicism. This trend accelerated in 1921 after Kozłowska died and Kowalski succeeded her as the church's guiding spirit and formal leader.

Kowalski published a biography of Kozłowska with a compilation of her visions and tried to keep her memory alive in the minds of followers while making her authority over her followers his own. The hagiographic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagiography) nature of this work and the "elevation" of Kozłowska to a status apparently co-equal with that of the Blessed Virgin Mary, if not with the Holy Spirit, was excessive even to many Mariavites. This undermined Kowalski's credibility with the faithful and precipitated the eventual split in the movement. Many of the factual details about Kozłowska's life remained unclear, and some of the myths surrounding her were perpetuated by Kowalski.

More names to listen for in those videos.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: hollingsworth on July 23, 2023, 06:45:21 PM
Mis. 
Quote
Once people are aware of the doctrinal errors they don't need to waste time on the nitty gritty.

If you know something is poison you don't have to send it to a lab to be analysed.  Enough is known about Faustina to convince anyone with a brain.  The rest is a waste of precious time.


Well yeah!  It's a stupid prayer.  Faustina was obviously off her rocker.  She should have listened to her superiors and the nuns in her convent. That millions of Catholics should be taken in by this phony devotion I find astonishing.  You don't need lengthy analysis.  Just follow your own spirit.  I hate the Divine Mercy Super Hero Jesus.  I hate the Divine Mercy prayer, as well.
Isn't it obvious that the whole silly devotion is an attempt to undercut the Rosary.  The so-called "luminous mysteries" always seem to accompany the Divine Mercy nonsense.  Who can pray them with a straight face?
She's a saint, one may rejoin. No, she's not.  Sister Lucy is a saint, or should be.  St. Gemma is a real saint  Padre Pio is a real saint.  Sr. Faustina was a nut job.  Let's just state it as it is.
Maybe some of these Polish jokes people tell have some basis in fact.  Now someone's going to call me anti-Polish.  Well, isn't that better than being called antisemitic? lol 
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: AnthonyPadua on July 23, 2023, 11:52:43 PM
So... who's this two and a half hour video for? Those of us who already know it's wrong? I will watch it and it sounds interesting but ood luck trying to get a Novus Ordite to sit through a presentation on Polish history.

Also, only the last 20 minutes are about the core issues. Sounds like this was a hobby project and not done with the goal of converting people.

Thank God MHFM already did the hard work of destroying the divine mercy deception in a powerful and concise format:
https://youtu.be/quQb-vyM9Cw
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB9wsq--mkdPdufUaUCaQPZAGyfp1OixJ

Mhfm video is good, I also like this playlist by Ascent of mt Carmel.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 24, 2023, 02:54:11 AM
I clicked thumbs up instead of quote.
Once people are aware of the doctrinal errors they don't need to waste time on the nitty gritty.
If you know something is poison you don't have to send it to a lab to be analysed.  Enough is known about Faustina to convince anyone with a brain.  The rest is a waste of precious time.
Except the Catholic Church doesn't deal merely in soundbites, it's academic.  This was an academic presentation for priests, not just shock entertainment of soundbites for traditionalist laymen.  As I explained, Novus Ordoites won't be receptive to "schismatics" talking about doctrinal errors, especially if you don't know anything about the devotion.

You can find Catholic books on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, the protestant reformation, communism, etc., and they do not merely just list off heresies in one page.

Even MHFM has produced lengthy docuмentaries.

Are all those books and the docuмentaries MHFM has done a waste of time because they require more than 5 minutes of a person's time?
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 24, 2023, 02:59:56 AM
Interesting. I haven't yet watched the videos, so I apologize if this is covered in detail, but of note is that Pope St. Pius X in the Encyclical Tribus circiter (https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-x_enc_05041906_tribus-circiter.html) suppressed the Mariavite order in 1906.

The woman referred to but not named in several paragraphs above was probably Sr. Feliksa Kozłowska, another supposed visionary who openly disobeyed and split from her Franciscan mentor. So much for claiming a charism intended to imitate our Blessed Mother.

Forward to Faustina's time (with the usual caveats as to Wikpedia as a source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Franciszka_Kozłowska#Legacy_and_myth) for anything), we have:

More names to listen for in those videos.

Her Franciscan mentor was Fr. Honorat Kozminski.    He was a radical Polish revolutionary setting up illicit secret religious congregations that were used for revolutions against the Russian Tsar.  He praised freemasons and defended socialist radicals.  He was eventually stripped of his leadership position over the congregrations. 

The presentation connects the devotion to Honorat Kozminski.  Sister Faustina's first convent she went to was in the town of Plock and was set up by Honorat Kozminski.  It is less than 1km down the road from the Mariavite headquarters.

And JP2 named him "Blessed".
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 24, 2023, 03:12:34 AM
Mis.

Faustina was obviously off her rocker.  She should have listened to her superiors and the nuns in her convent. That millions of Catholics should be taken in by this phony devotion I find astonishing.  You don't need lengthy analysis.  Just follow your own spirit. 

Except if you say what you wrote to someone who is a DM devotee they will know you have no idea what you are talking about because you don't know the official story.

The official narrative is nobody other than her 2 spiritual confessors knew that she was having visions.  The official narrative is that she was reviewed by a psychologist and judged to be completely psychologically sound.  The official narrative is that she was obedient to her priestly confessors and they were so taken in by her visions, they learned about God's Divine Mercy from Faustina herself and said the Church has buried God's mercy for 2000 years.

You need to understand that Catholics were not reading her diary. It's not as though after she died her diary was immediately printed and being sold to Catholics to read.  Her confessor Fr. Sopocko said her diary wasn't really meant for the general public.  

We cover in the presentation how people were taken in by this phony devotion.  Priests promoted it, not laity.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Soubirous on July 24, 2023, 07:07:50 AM
Her Franciscan mentor was Fr. Honorat Kozminski.    He was a radical Polish revolutionary setting up illicit secret religious congregations that were used for revolutions against the Russian Tsar.  He praised freemasons and defended socialist radicals.  He was eventually stripped of his leadership position over the congregrations.

The presentation connects the devotion to Honorat Kozminski.  Sister Faustina's first convent she went to was in the town of Plock and was set up by Honorat Kozminski.  It is less than 1km down the road from the Mariavite headquarters.

And JP2 named him "Blessed".

Thanks for that clarification. So the various players and their alliances and disagreements become even more complex. I will need to watch the videos. As for JP2, the temporal backstory of Poland reveals the Ostpolitik in Wojtyla's secret ordination of those priests, contra Paul VI's prohibition. It slowly begins to make sense.

All of the intrigues behind this over-hyped devotion might make a person want to agree with Miseremini in Reply #17. Yet it can help for laity to delve deeper as a reminder and a warning of what continues to happen when wolves and false prophets follow their own ungodly priorities.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Martius on July 24, 2023, 10:00:28 AM
That history lesson all makes perfect sense, especially since Poland was where all merchants went after getting expelled by Queen Isabella. Perhaps the term "ʝʊdɛօpollock" needs to be added to the lexicon.  They basically used the same play book, claiming victim status, agitating, atrocity propaganda, and of course a fake journal.  Also the fake novus ordo eucharistic miracle in Poland can be added to the list.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: hollingsworth on July 24, 2023, 11:20:00 AM

Quote
Perhaps the term "ʝʊdɛօpollock" needs to be added to the lexicon.  They basically used the same play book, claiming victim status, agitating, atrocity propaganda, and of course a fake journal.  Also the fake novus ordo eucharistic miracle in Poland can be added to the list.
Well yes.  Follow the thread back to its origins, and it almost always involves them.  The mystery ends here.  Thanks for the info.  
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 24, 2023, 11:45:40 AM
Thanks for that clarification. So the various players and their alliances and disagreements become even more complex. I will need to watch the videos. As for JP2, the temporal backstory of Poland reveals the Ostpolitik in Wojtyla's secret ordination of those priests, contra Paul VI's prohibition. It slowly begins to make sense.

All of the intrigues behind this over-hyped devotion might make a person want to agree with Miseremini in Reply #17. Yet it can help for laity to delve deeper as a reminder and a warning of what continues to happen when wolves and false prophets follow their own ungodly priorities.
I think when do don't have all the data we turn things into a Hollywood movie in our minds.  And of course they deliberately have hidden the data, and its spread amongst different docuмents, and tidbits they drop here and there.

Yes, when one thinks of "underground seminary" because of WW2 indoctrination, we think evil nαzιs were destroying the church and the poor seminarians just wanted to help dispense the sacraments.  There were seminaries still open that were not underground.  They could have also go to seminaries in Germany or Rome that were open.  An "underground seminary" was link to the resistance, which would involve training priests to engage in espionage, delivering coded messages, and potentially engaging in terrorism, while hiding behind the clerical collar.  It's actually a war crime.  So when the poles tell of stories of priests being killed by Germans (many are lies, many died of typhus), it's a propaganda tactic to get sympathy, the priests were violating the Geneva and Hague conventions of war, encouraged by the Brits. They were not killed for being Catholic.

That underground partisan behaviour gets to the heart of the communist infiltration, as many priests were part of the Anders Army which trained in Russia, as Poland allied with the communists.

the 2nd part of the presentation starts with a diagram showing the connection between the key players in the devotion.
Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: christopherreid on July 24, 2023, 12:02:40 PM
That history lesson all makes perfect sense, especially since Poland was where all merchants went after getting expelled by Queen Isabella. Perhaps the term "ʝʊdɛօpollock" needs to be added to the lexicon.  They basically used the same play book, claiming victim status, agitating, atrocity propaganda, and of course a fake journal.  Also the fake novus ordo eucharistic miracle in Poland can be added to the list.
Yes.  During the Romantic era, while Poland didn't exist as a country and was part of Russia, they started to believe their suffering made them the "Christ of Europe".  That in and of itself isn't heretical, as we'd should ultimately endeavour to have a life like Christ.  The problem is many of the key cultural leaders were more associated with Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and gnosticism.  The Catholic Church was merely a symbol of resisting the Tsar and resisting becoming Russianized.  Being Polish and Catholic was seen as being indistinguishable, so that whatever a Pole did, IT WAS CATHOLIC and not heresy or sinful.  Their mentality was if it helped Polish nationalism, in therefore must help Catholicism.  They wouldn't openly preach heresy, but also combating heresy would compromise the nationalist cause.  So outwardly they might be pious and moral, but dogma would take second place.

Being under occupation of the Tsar, the Catholic Poles developed maybe not a love for Jews, but an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" so there was a marriage of convenience to collaborate against the Tsar.  

They put out lies about Maximilian Kolbe during the war.  They will heavily twist the stories of their martyrs for crass political benefit.

If you notice the atrocity propaganda its different between between the Jews and Poles.  For Jews its 6 million jews just magically vanishing in a puff of smoke like they never existed.  Very cold and distant.

For the polish atrocity propaganda its always very personal and intimate - a german soldier injects phenol into the arm of the Pole after humiliating him.  

Title: Re: Investigation of the Divine Mercy Devotion
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on February 23, 2024, 10:59:30 AM
"Through the most sorrowful passion of Jesus..  (it is now for the sake of His Sorrowful passion.). 

have mercy on us and on the whole world.