Author Topic: Introduction to Fr. Paul Kramer's Renamed Book, "To Deceive the Elect" (Read 1888 times)

AlbertP · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2018, 08:35:21 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on October 02, 2018, 06:57:59 PM

If Francis is a manifest heretic, then so is Benedict. They believe the same things ... only Bergoglio is just more open and shameless about it. What heresy does Bergoglio hold that Benedict could also not be quoted as promoting?

Exactly. In my opinion, Benedict is more clearly heretical than Francis, but neither of them meet the definition of a manifest heretic.

And isn’t it interesting that Fr. Kramer claims Francis is a “manifest formal heretic” for holding the same doctrinal position as his predecessors, whom Fr. Kramer excuses from heresy. For example, he claims Francis “pronounces the judgment of heresy against himself” for rejecting proselytism, when John Paul II, Paul VI, and Benedict XVI did the same.

Fr. Kramer: “Bergoglio pronounces the judgment of heresy against himself by directly denying and attacking a revealed truth of the universal magisterium which is and has been universally known to all Catholics throughout the bi-millennial history of the Church; namely, the explicit and solemn command and teaching of Our Lord Jesus Christ to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19-20). He is obstinate in his perverse denial and outright rejection of this dogma, professing his own opposed doctrine, which he professed previously in his interview with Eugenio Scalfari: "Proselytism is solemn nonsense." Bergoglio says Christ's teaching is "solemn nonsense": Bergoglio on 13 October 2016 declared: ''It's not right to convince someone of your faith,'' […] ''Proselytism is the strongest venom against the path of ecuмenism.'' That Jorge Bergoglio is a manifest formal heretic is plainly demonstrated by his outright and explicit rejection of some of the most basic dogmas of Christian belief – notably, 1) his rejection of Christ's explicit teaching on evangelizing and converting all nations.”

Compare Francis teaching to that of his predecessors.

Paul VI: “In the name of Christian charity, we reject all forms of proselytism, in the sense of acts by which persons seek to disturb each other's communities by recruiting new members from each other…” (Paul VI’s Common Declaration with the Pope Of Alexandria Shenouda III, May 1973)

Benedict XVI: “The Church does not engage in proselytism. Instead, she grows by ‘attraction’: just as Christ ‘draws all to himself’ by the power of his love…” (Pope, Benedict XVI, On The Occasion Of The Fifth General Conference Of The Bishops Of Latin America And The Caribbean, May 13, 2007).

Paul II said: “'We reject every form of proselytism, every attitude which would be or could be perceived to be a lack of respect" (John Paul II’s joint declaration with the Eastern Orthodox Ecuмenical Patriarch Dimitrios I, December 1987).

John Paul II, “We condemn all recourse to violence, proselytism and fanaticism in the name of religion.” (Common Declaration with Schismatic Primate of Greece, Christodolus, May 4, 2001)

If Francis is a manifest heretic for rejecting proselytism, why aren’t Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict manifest heretics for doing the same? Where is the equity in Fr. Kramer’s private judgment of papal heresy?

In the Introduction to his book, he claims it’s heresy to believe a manifest heretic can be pope. He also says a pope who rejects proselytism “plainly demonstrates” that he is a “manifest formal heretic”. Well, if we use Fr. Kramer's own logic, and his own definition of manifest heresy, Fr. Kramer has “pronounces the judgment of heresy against himself” for recognizing the “manifest heretics”, Paul VI, JPII, and now Benedict, as true popes. By his lack of equity in judgment, Fr. Kramer ends by condemning himself.

Struthio · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2018, 08:49:00 PM »

@AlbertP

Thanks for docuмenting the fact that all these "popes" of the conciliar sect reject the command of Our Lord Jesus Christ to teach and baptize.

King Wenceslas · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2018, 12:14:01 PM »

All or nothing huh guys? No popes from here on out until the end of time. You ja will literally destroy the resistance to Jorge Francis Bergoglio.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2018, 01:01:14 PM »

Quote from: AlbertP on October 03, 2018, 08:35:21 PM

If Francis is a manifest heretic for rejecting proselytism, why aren’t Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict manifest heretics for doing the same? Where is the equity in Fr. Kramer’s private judgment of papal heresy?

He appears to be claiming that Bergoglio has more malice? How is that not attempting to delve into the internal forum?

Author Topic: Introduction to Fr. Paul Kramer's Renamed Book, "To Deceive the Elect" (Read 1888 times)

AlbertP

Re: Introduction to Fr. Paul Kramer's Renamed Book, "To Deceive the Elect"

Struthio

Re: Introduction to Fr. Paul Kramer's Renamed Book, "To Deceive the Elect"

King Wenceslas

Re: Introduction to Fr. Paul Kramer's Renamed Book, "To Deceive the Elect"

Ladislaus

Re: Introduction to Fr. Paul Kramer's Renamed Book, "To Deceive the Elect"