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Author Topic: Interpretation of Vatican II  (Read 801 times)

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Offline Lazarus

Re: Interpretation of Vatican II
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 12:50:07 PM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on February 27, 2026, 07:06:48 PM
That's good. So back to Lad's post, what exactly was your problem with it, as it had nothing to do with BOD?  You can pull quotes from practically any trad Bishop, and I'm sure scores of trad priests, saying that non-Catholics who are ignorant of Our Lord and of the Faith can be saved without converting. That is the "V2 ecclesiology" Lad was referring to

Right. But believing that the Sacrament of Baptism administered in water is absolutely necessary for salvation does, apparently

Of course, what Catholic would deny that? If you are referring to Trent On Justification "or the desire thereof", I don't think that would support any claim that Trent defines an explicit desire as being necessary. It just says "desire". Implicit BOD was held prior to Trent and certainly after it. I'd be interested to see how many theologians after Trent held explicit desire only, I'd bet a small minority..if that



Rest assured that St. Gregory nαzιanzen, Peter Abellard, Fr. Feeney, and Fr. Wathen did no such thing
The reason you could go to hell because of Feyneism isn't simply because of believing in a false theological statement, otherwise every Catholic who received education from a priest who is not some a theologian specialist and who could be teaching slight inaccuracies risks going to hell just because they obey their priest. That would go against Justice.

The problem is that, similarly to protestants, Feyneites think just because someone has some knowledge of theology they are authoritative on matters of salvation. They think anyone can study theology and become an "expert" and talk about the subject, like the pastors who more often than not are in fact quite incompetent. They go against hierarchy, they oppose the natural order itself.


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Offline WorldsAway

Re: Interpretation of Vatican II
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 04:51:51 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on Yesterday at 12:50:07 PM
The reason you could go to hell because of Feyneism isn't simply because of believing in a false theological statement, otherwise every Catholic who received education from a priest who is not some a theologian specialist and who could be teaching slight inaccuracies risks going to hell just because they obey their priest. That would go against Justice.

The problem is that, similarly to protestants, Feyneites think just because someone has some knowledge of theology they are authoritative on matters of salvation. They think anyone can study theology and become an "expert" and talk about the subject, like the pastors who more often than not are in fact quite incompetent. They go against hierarchy, they oppose the natural order itself.
So what you're saying is, as long as I follow the teachings of St. Gregory nαzιanzen, Pope St. Leo the Great, and numerous Church Councils and other Popes on the subject I should be alright? That makes sense to me

But again, what was the issue with Lad's post?
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Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: Interpretation of Vatican II
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 04:58:58 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on February 27, 2026, 04:08:29 PM
4)The problem of Feyneites is not that they don't believe in the baptism of desire or blood (even though I think they should), but that they put the words of the Dimond brothers above that of the words of a Pope, a Doctor of the Church or a Council. Thinking that people are equal, or thinking some layperson is the equal of a Pope, this is a heresy of the highest order.
This is completely wrong and shows you are ignorant on this issue. Also feeneyite is a propaganda term like anti-vaxxer, using it shows you are brainwashed.
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Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: Interpretation of Vatican II
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 05:01:58 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on Yesterday at 12:50:07 PM
The reason you could go to hell because of Feyneism isn't simply because of believing in a false theological statement, otherwise every Catholic who received education from a priest who is not some a theologian specialist and who could be teaching slight inaccuracies risks going to hell just because they obey their priest. That would go against Justice.

The problem is that, similarly to protestants, Feyneites think just because someone has some knowledge of theology they are authoritative on matters of salvation. They think anyone can study theology and become an "expert" and talk about the subject, like the pastors who more often than not are in fact quite incompetent. They go against hierarchy, they oppose the natural order itself.
You are wrong. If a person is told to sin by their authority they must disobey. If they are unsure if what they are being told to do is a sin they must obey.

The Church has infallibly taught baptism with such tight terms that it renders both BoB and BoD impossible. Also Florence directly refutes BoB.
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Offline Lazarus

Re: Interpretation of Vatican II
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 05:29:35 PM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on Yesterday at 04:51:51 PM
So what you're saying is, as long as I follow the teachings of St. Gregory nαzιanzen, Pope St. Leo the Great, and numerous Church Councils and other Popes on the subject I should be alright? That makes sense to me

But again, what was the issue with Lad's post?

Pope Innocent II wrote, in Apostolicam Sedem :

"To your inquiry we respond thus: We assert without hesitation (on the authority of the holy Fathers Augustine and Ambrose) that the priest whom you indicated (in your letter) had died without the water of baptism, because he persevered in the faith of holy mother the Church and in the confession of the name of Christ, was freed from original sin and attained the joy of the heavenly fatherland. Read (brother) in the eighth book of Augustine's City of God where, among other things, it is written: 'Baptism is ministered invisibly to one whom not contempt of religion but death excludes.' Read again the book also of the blessed Ambrose concerning the death of Valentinian where he says the same thing."


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