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Vatican II heretics believe that literally everyone can have some kind of subconscious desire to be baptized. They claim those who are in a state of invincible ignorance and who practice virtue, and who through no fault of their own do not believe in the true faith, subconsciously desire baptism and can be saved.

Then, they vastly exaggerate how many people could actually be saved (even assuming their premises are true) to encourage moral weakness and tolerating sinners.

The logical fallacy is probably found at the "Through no fault of their own" part. It would be laughable if muslims living in western countries who rape and kill christians and pretend to be victims of "islamophobia" could go to heaven.

I believe that there must be some logical middle-ground here, between the false thesis preached by Vatican II, and between the claim that someone with the true faith and who desires baptism, but die (as an example as martyrs) go to hell.

Again, what does saying and believing that non-Catholics can be saved have to do with BOD? Just take some time to think about the implications of that statement (non-Catholics can be saved) versus what BOD is alleged to bring about

I am making the difference between some sort of subconscious desire to be baptized, and the explicit desire and intent to be baptized as soon as they can.

That is interesting, because Sts. Alphonsus Liguori and Aquinas did not hold explicit desire to be necessary in order to receive BOD, neither did the majority of theologians over the past several centuries.

Is contradicting the "common consensus" of theologians (includes Doctors) regarding what is required to receive BOD A-OK, just so long as you affirm some vague, baseline belief in BOD?


BODer: "If you don't believe in BOD, you're a heretic!"

John 3:5 believer: "Okay..what's BOD?"

BODer: "....opinions vary"

1)I do not think non-Catholics can be saved.

That's good. So back to Lad's post, what exactly was your problem with it, as it had nothing to do with BOD?  You can pull quotes from practically any trad Bishop, and I'm sure scores of trad priests, saying that non-Catholics who are ignorant of Our Lord and of the Faith can be saved without converting. That is the "V2 ecclesiology" Lad was referring to

2)I don't think theological disagreements send Catholics to hell.

Right. But believing that the Sacrament of Baptism administered in water is absolutely necessary for salvation does, apparently 

3)The authorititativeness of the Council of Trent is above the authority of Doctors of the Church. If there is a conflict between what theologians and what the Council of Trent says, then the Council of Trent has to be trusted above them. Catholics, unlike protestants, do not only trust how logically sound an argument is but also whose authority is superior. 

Of course, what Catholic would deny that? If you are referring to Trent On Justification "or the desire thereof", I don't think that would support any claim that Trent defines an explicit desire as being necessary. It just says "desire". Implicit BOD was held prior to Trent and certainly after it. I'd be interested to see how many theologians after Trent held explicit desire only, I'd bet a small minority..if that

4)The problem of Feyneites is not that they don't believe in the baptism of desire or blood (even though I think they should), but that they put the words of the Dimond brothers above that of the words of a Pope, a Doctor of the Church or a Council. Thinking that people are equal, or thinking some layperson is the equal of a Pope, this is a heresy of the highest order.

Rest assured that St. Gregory nαzιanzen, Peter Abellard, Fr. Feeney, and Fr. Wathen did no such thing

Agreed.
The Dimonds are fools, likely frauds, definitely scandalous, and although I personally do not recommend them to anyone, they actually do preach some very good, very Catholic things.

But what you are forgetting or denying is that there is a valid argument *against* the idea of a BOD according to the teachings of the Church.

Trent never taught a BOD, if anything  Trent condemned it as salvation via faith alone, which, no matter how anyone wants to define it, that is exactly what a BOD/BOB is. Note that for whatever reason, believers of a BOD trip right over this most obvious of flaws in the whole idea of a BOD as they trumpet it as a doctrine.

Trent's catechism never taught it, those who believe it does teach a BOD believe it because they read meanings into words which the words they read do not say, while they fail to advert to what the words do say.

1)Considering the number of former Dimondites who then end up becoming Vatican-IIers or even atheists, and considering how they make a mockery of the sedevacantist position, I have a very poor opinion of them. The fruits can evidently be seen to be bad.

2)I'll simply quote the Trent's catechism verbatim to you. On the necessity of baptism :  "Ordinarily They Are Not Baptised At Once On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness. Nay, this delay seems to be attended with some advantages. And first, since the Church must take particular care that none approach this Sacrament through hypocrisy and dissimulation, the intentions of such as seek Baptism, are better examined and ascertained. Hence it is that we read in the decrees of ancient Councils that Jєωιѕн converts to the Catholic faith, before admission to Baptism, should spend some months in the ranks of the catechumens. Furthermore, the candidate for Baptism is thus better instructed in the doctrine of the faith which he is to profess, and in the practices of the Christian life. Finally, when Baptism is administered to adults with solemn ceremonies on the appointed days of Easter and Pentecost only greater religious reverence is shown to the Sacrament."