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Author Topic: Interpretation of Vatican II  (Read 412 times)

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Re: Interpretation of Vatican II
« Reply #15 on: Today at 02:48:52 PM »
Vatican II heretics believe that literally everyone can have some kind of subconscious desire to be baptized. They claim those who are in a state of invincible ignorance and who practice virtue, and who through no fault of their own do not believe in the true faith, subconsciously desire baptism and can be saved.

Then, they vastly exaggerate how many people could actually be saved (even assuming their premises are true) to encourage moral weakness and tolerating sinners.

The logical fallacy is probably found at the "Through no fault of their own" part. It would be laughable if muslims living in western countries who rape and kill christians and pretend to be victims of "islamophobia" could go to heaven.

I believe that there must be some logical middle-ground here, between the false thesis preached by Vatican II, and between the claim that someone with the true faith and who desires baptism, but die (as an example as martyrs) go to hell.

Again, what does saying and believing that non-Catholics can be saved have to do with BOD? Just take some time to think about the implications of that statement (non-Catholics can be saved) versus what BOD is alleged to bring about

Quote
I am making the difference between some sort of subconscious desire to be baptized, and the explicit desire and intent to be baptized as soon as they can.
That is interesting, because Sts. Alphonsus Liguori and Aquinas did not hold explicit desire to be necessary in order to receive BOD, neither did the majority of theologians over the past several centuries.

Is contradicting the "common consensus" of theologians (includes Doctors) regarding what is required to receive BOD A-OK, just so long as you affirm some vague, baseline belief in BOD?


BODer: "If you don't believe in BOD, you're a heretic!"

John 3:5 believer: "Okay..what's BOD?"

BODer: "....opinions vary"

:popcorn:




Re: Interpretation of Vatican II
« Reply #16 on: Today at 04:08:29 PM »
Again, what does saying and believing that non-Catholics can be saved have to do with BOD? Just take some time to think about the implications of that statement (non-Catholics can be saved) versus what BOD is alleged to bring about
That is interesting, because Sts. Alphonsus Liguori and Aquinas did not hold explicit desire to be necessary in order to receive BOD, neither did the majority of theologians over the past several centuries.

Is contradicting the "common consensus" of theologians (includes Doctors) regarding what is required to receive BOD A-OK, just so long as you affirm some vague, baseline belief in BOD?


BODer: "If you don't believe in BOD, you're a heretic!"

John 3:5 believer: "Okay..what's BOD?"

BODer: "....opinions vary"

:popcorn:

1)I do not think non-Catholics can be saved. 

2)I don't think theological disagreements send Catholics to hell. 

3)The authorititativeness of the Council of Trent is above the authority of Doctors of the Church. If there is a conflict between what theologians and what the Council of Trent says, then the Council of Trent has to be trusted above them. Catholics, unlike protestants, do not only trust how logically sound an argument is but also whose authority is superior.  

4)The problem of Feyneites is not that they don't believe in the baptism of desire or blood (even though I think they should), but that they put the words of the Dimond brothers above that of the words of a Pope, a Doctor of the Church or a Council. Thinking that people are equal, or thinking some layperson is the equal of a Pope, this is a heresy of the highest order.