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Author Topic: Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
« on: May 05, 2012, 10:09:41 AM »
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  • Every time I attend a family ceremony at a Novus Ordo parish, I find myself amazed at how much change is going on, for the worse.

    Yesterday I went to a "rosary" for my friend's mother, who passed away last week. Well, it wasn't a rosary. A parish deacon led the ceremony, and he explained that we would have "a decade." So after a brief introduction that looked like it would be another de-constructed Novus Ordo "mass," he went into the Creed, in which everyone joined with him. There were about 200 people present.

    Then he said an Our Father, and everyone piled on those words, too. Then he started a Hail Mary, but the crowd waited for the second half to join in, "Holy Mary, mother of God..." I thought, "he didn't announce a mystery." But after 3 Hail Marys, he said a Glory Be, to which the crowd responded, "As it was in the beginning..." etc. So things were picking up, so to speak.

    Then he announced the mystery of the Resurrection. So it was a resurrection decade. He read from the Gospel of John describing the holy women going to Our Lord's tomb for a minute or two, then went into the Our Father, which the crowd habitually joined in from the first words, to the last. He said 10 Hail Marys, thus:

    "Hail Mary, full o'grace, the Lord's with-ee. Bles'd are YOU among wom'n an' bles'd th' fru-th'-wum Jesus."

    The word, YOU, stood out as the most clearly recognizable English word he spoke. The rest was literally a blur.

    His manner of speech was clipped and slurred, which I tried to depict with the spelling, above. The point is, if you didn't know the Hail Mary, you would be hard pressed to recognize what he was saying. Later I was told that a lot of the people present were not Catholic. So I had to wonder what impression they had of Catholics, who mutter unintelligible nonsense when they "pray?"

    He concluded with a Glory Be, after which one Filippino lady in the back chimed in with "O my Jesus forgive us our sins..." but she faded out because no one was saying that.

    They continued with "the intercessions," which is a pile of innovation wherein the crowd responds with "Lord hear our prayer," after a woman mentions some aspect of the deceased's life where she had demonstrated a Scriptural value.  

    I spoke to the deacon after the service and asked him how they arrived at a decade instead of a rosary, and he explained to me that the Bereavement minister went to the family with a checklist this past week and got their answers, and the family had decided that it would be too "boring" and "inconvenient" for the non-Catholic attendees to sit through a whole rosary, so they decided on a decade instead.

    I asked him if the bereavement ministry explains to the family that there is no indulgence attached to one decade, but that there is an indulgence attached to a whole rosary? He said that he didn't think they tell them that.

    I replied that this was an opportunity for the deceased to receive the graces of 10,000 rosaries, for 100 people together praying one rosary results in each person getting the grace of 100 rosaries, and if the deacon asks everyone to make the intention of the deceased receiving the indulgence, then she would have the grace of 100 x 100 = 10,000 rosaries. He said, "you know, I've never thought of it that way. Perhaps God has sent you here tonight to explain this to me."

    Altogether, we were there long enough to have prayed 3 rosaries, but we actually prayed none.
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    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 01:50:42 PM »
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  • Your experience saddens me. I went through about the same
    ritual at a NO when a relative passed a few years back.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 02:38:06 PM »
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  • Among my friends, it seems to be a common theme that the lone hold-out for Tradition is usually overrun by the aggression of their Novus Ordo brothers and sisters, or perhaps fallen-away Catholics. This applies not only to the religious aspects, but as well to the material concerns, such as inheritance or Trust settlement. The more worldly one is, the more likely he will be committed to grab as much for himself, regardless of anything, anywhere.

    When your own parents pass away and you have to occupy the front pew with people waving their arms and kissing and hugging and talking before and after Mass, it isn't easy.  

    Churches are being rebuilt to suit the demands of the unclean spirit of Vatican II, and these enduring defects will be with us for many years to come.
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    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 09:19:29 PM »
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  • It's sad but true.  Find a Traditional Latin Mass and just say "no" to the N.O.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 10:03:32 AM »
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  • At this particular church where the "decade" was held, a number of Catholics in attendance were upset that 4 decades were omitted. And the curious thing is, the lady who had died had raised 10 children, all of whom testify that the family rosary was a daily event in her home. If anyone would have been upset over deleting 4 decades, it was the deceased person in the casket!

    But she had never made her own arrangements in advance; she had never filled out a Last Wishes form on file with the local parish. She left it up to her children, and their primary concern was the comfort of the non-Catholics in attendance.  So they decided on "a decade," not a Rosary.

    This particular church has been remodeled, about 10 years ago. They turned the pews around to face the side, and where the old altar was, is now the end of a long hallway, where the tabernacle is in exile. When a newcomer enters, he is disoriented, and sitting down, eventually notices someone bowing in the direction of the left transcept. Only then, going to peek down the hall, does he see there is a small, shiny brass box on a pedestal with a white (not red) candle burning nearby.

    They have moved the sacristy to an area near the new main entrance, which now makes it convenient for the priest to process up the middle aisle before Mass, and then after Mass and processing down the main aisle, he hangs out at the main entrance vigorously shaking everyone's hand, he can conveniently duck into the sacristy (especially when he wants to escape uncomfortable questions). His parking space is nearby outside.

    When I asked about the reason for moving the sacristy to a place so far away from the sanctuary, a "deacon" (who is a married man with no intention of becoming a priest) told me that "After Vatican II, the priest enters the church by coming up the main aisle, and afterwards, leaves the same way, where he can meet everyone."

    Whenever you ask one of these guys to show you where this change (whatever it is) can be found in the docuмents of Vatican II, they can't do it. So they'll defer to the "spirit of Vatican II" as the reference for the change.

    And if you dig deeper to see where this "spirit of Vatican II" is rooted in the docuмents, you'll find a frequent reference to SC 22.2, on local bishops and their "conferences."  
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    Offline cateran

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 10:26:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat

    But she had never made her own arrangements in advance; she had never filled out a Last Wishes form on file with the local parish. She left it up to her children, and their primary concern was the comfort of the non-Catholics in attendance.  So they decided on "a decade," not a Rosary.  


    I'm intrigued by your comment there and wondering if this is perhaps a particularly American practice? Although I've had no contact with the conciliar religion for quite a while, I've never come across it in Europe. It caught my interest mainly because I've been pondering whether I might avail myself of something similar. It's probably a moot point since I, effectively, have no "local parish" and (all of my family being lapsed or conciliar Catholics) I will not have access to either the Last Sacraments, a Requiem Mass or a Catholic burial.

    Offline bernadette

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 10:40:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Every time I attend a family ceremony at a Novus Ordo parish, I find myself amazed at how much change is going on, for the worse.




    For those who have been away from the inside of a NO church for some time...it truly is shocking to see the degeneration that has occurred....as to the slurred words in the rosary..no surprise there...it is a reflection of society and how far down it has slipped as a whole...in speaking, good diction is long gone, proper English is long gone, tolerance of slang in language is the norm, proper etiquette and good manners are long gone, the desire and goal to elevate oneself is gone... and it all began with the idea of 'cultural diversity'...loss of class distinction...equality fraternity and liberty!  Liberty to be uneducated and closer to barbarianism...yes, the bar has really been lowered and it shows.

    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 01:03:07 PM »
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  • +JMJ+

    You know what drives me UP A WALL?

    When people don't pray the Rosary with pauses and inflections like meaningful English.

    Instead, I get to hear people praying "and-blez-diz-dafroo-die-woom-jeeziz".

    As if Jesus was the Name of Mary's WOMB!

    The Rosary should be prayed at a patient, reverent, respectful pace that is understandable and declarative, or not at all, especially in groups. That, of course, is my opinion.

    I just get so sick of seeing and hearing people cheapen and basically dismiss all forms of reverence (nodding your head toward the Tabernacle, indeed!) and then lamenting (if they even bother) the sorry state of the N.O. "church".

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

    St. Dominic, pray for us.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Innovation, de-evolution of Catholic ceremonies
    « Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 01:26:52 AM »
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  • Quote from: Stephen Francis
    +JMJ+

    You know what drives me UP A WALL?

    When people don't pray the Rosary with pauses and inflections like meaningful English...

    The Rosary should be prayed at a patient, reverent, respectful pace that is understandable and declarative, or not at all, especially in groups. That, of course, is my opinion...

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

    St. Dominic, pray for us.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.


    I thought I was a rather sensitive participant, for the manner of speech I hear most often is as you say, rushed, slurred, without reflection. When I pray the Rosary with a group in Church, I'm easily distracted by their apparent lack of devotion.

    But this is then another means for doing penance. Patiently cope with the conflict, and don't give up!

    The writings of St. Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort are very helpful in this. We should strive to make each and every Hail Mary its own, sincere words that we speak to our Lady. I like to imagine, every time I say the Hail Mary, that this is my big chance, when I finally get to meet her, and now I can say these words to her in person: will I be in a rush? Will I slur my words? Will I, heaven forbid, forget what to say?

    Or, will I make each and every word count, because they each stand for all the times in my life that I practiced saying them?

    By putting myself in the place of actually meeting the Mother of God, face to face, and saying these words as if they are my own words to her, words which I desire to convey the meaning of my heart, I find that I never say the Hail Mary the same way twice. This one thing, alone, takes all the monotony out of the Rosary.  

    According to St. Montfort, one Hail Mary properly prayed is more effective than 1,000 said in haste and inattention.

    So, in answer to those who are hoping to get "up to" 3 Rosaries said daily, it's fine to desire that, but please do not give up on praying each prayer well.

    At Fatima, the children were admonished for rushing through their prayers. Their demeanor is quite instructive, for they behaved in the beginning as we all are wont to do, to "get done with" our prayers so we can get on to doing the things we really desire to do. They even abbreviated their Rosary to saying "Hail Mary, Holy Mary, Hail Mary, Holy Mary..." But that didn't continue for long, and quite the opposite took over after they were shown the vision of Hell. Every word of the Rosary took on new meaning for them. And this new outlook and manner endured for the rest of their holy lives.
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