Author Topic: Infallibility of Canonizations (Read 1688 times)

CM · « **Reply #5 on:** September 02, 2009, 04:04:33 PM »

Once more for the record, I am not saying that a person can go around denouncing saints as heretics, but they MUST point out the errors and heresies ATTRIBUTED to the saint, and refuse assent to them.

CM · « **Reply #6 on:** September 02, 2009, 04:08:46 PM »

Of course, if a 'saint' was 'canonized' by an antipope, who holds no authority in the Catholic Church, then such a person, although it is still possible that they are in heaven, could very well have been manifestly non-Catholic whose damnation is morally certain, as can be seen from many post V2 'canonizations'.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 02, 2009, 04:13:13 PM »

No point in quoting St. Robert to CM, he considers him a heretic.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2009, 04:20:02 PM »

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Dogmatic ѕυιcιdє is denying ex cathedra decrees.

Dogmatic ѕυιcιdє is twisting ex cathedra decrees around to support your hobbyhorse.

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A pope does not say in a canonization "You have to accept this or that doctrine that is contained in a work attributed to this or that saint", but most people want to look at it that way, as though a canonization means the saint himself was never capable of erring, falling into heresy at one point or another, or even being non-Catholic.

THAT is true, except for the last part about being non-Catholic. The Church could never canonize a saint who was non-Catholic. If he had made an error that temporarily took him out of the Church, he would at some point have recanted and been restituted. How could someone who dies a non-Catholic be canonized?

You see, where the soul of an unbaptized catechumen goes after death, despite what Feeneyites tell you, was never a matter for heresy. It was an opinion. The Church never told you that you MUST believe all unbaptized catechumens go to hell. Never, despite their use of chop-logic to make it appear so.

Now it is a dogma that unbaptized catechumens MAY be saved. Not will, but may -- that is why they are buried in consecrated ground. And the Feeneyites are denying this dogma.

CM · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2009, 04:33:03 PM »

About Bellarmine, it doesn't even matter if he was not a heretic. No saint is infallible, and their opinions are simply human speculation.

Quote from: Raoul76

Now it is a dogma that unbaptized catechumens MAY be saved. Not will, but may -- that is why they are buried in consecrated ground. And the Feeneyites are denying this dogma.

No it is not, but I would be interested in seeing why you make such an assertion. Which dogmatic teaching did you reference to come up with this new dogma?

Quote from: Pope Innocent III, at the Fourth Lateran Council, infallibly

There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice.

A catechumen is not "of the faithful". In fact the tradition of the Church has been to have the Mass of the Catechumens, and then the Mass of the Faithful, which catechumens were not to partake in.