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Author Topic: Infallibility of Canonizations  (Read 1320 times)

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Offline Ambrose

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Infallibility of Canonizations
« on: March 02, 2014, 11:40:46 PM »
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  • Assertion 5: The Church's infallibility extends to the canonization of saints. This is the common opinion today. (19)

    Canonization (formal) is the final and definitive decree by which the sovereign pontiff declares that someone has been admitted to heaven and is to be venerated by everyone, at least in the sense that all the faithful are held to consider the person a saint worthy of public veneration. It differs from beatification, which is a provisional rather than a definitive decree, by which veneration is only permitted, or at least is not universally prescribed. Infallibility is claimed for canonization only; (20) a decree of beatification, which in the eyes of the Church is not definitive but may still be rescinded, is to be considered morally certain indeed, but not infallible. Still, there are some theologians who take a different view of the matter.

    Proof:

    1. From the solid conviction of the Church. When the popes canonize, they use terminology which makes it quite evident that they consider decrees of canonization infallible. Here is, in sum, the formula they use: “By the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and of the apostles Peter and Paul and by our own authority, we declare that N. has been admitted to heaven, and we decree and define that he is to be venerated in public and in private as a saint.”

    2. From the purpose of infallibility. The Church is infallible so that it may be a trustworthy teacher of the Christian religion and of the Christian way of life. But it would not be such if it could err in the canonization of saints. Would not religion be sullied if a person in hell were, by a definitive decree, offered to everyone as an object of religious veneration? Would not the moral law be at least weakened to some extent, if a protégé of the devil could be irrevocably set up as a model of virtue for all to imitate and for all to invoke? But it cannot be inferred: therefore the Church must also be infallible in authenticating the relics of the saints; for (a) the Church never issues so solemn a decree about relics; and (b) the cases are not parallel, for in the case of relics, it is a question of relative cult, while in that of the saints it is one of absolute cult.(21)

    Corollory

    Several considerations urge the conclusion that the Church's infallibility extends also to equivalent canonization, formerly quite common. By this means, without any formal decree of canonization, a deceased person gradually came to be venerated by the universal Church. However, formal and equivalent canonizations arc not at all on the same plane; in the latter the consent of the supreme pontiff can be taken as purely permissive, in much the same way as the veneration of a beatified person is sometimes permitted the universal Church. Some scholars are led by this observation to think that it is not absolutely impossible that someone who is not a saint might appear among those who, without being formally canonized, have a commemoration or even a full office in the Breviary. The papal approval of the Breviary, they say, as far as they who have not been formally canonized are concerned, amounts to nothing more than an order that no change be made therein. This is not a definitive decree, but rather permission to continue the traditional cult.(22)

    Scholion: Is the fact of the Church's infallibility in matters related to revealed truth itself a revealed truth?

    In each instance we have proved the infallibility of the Church's teaching office in matters related to the deposit of revelation from the express purpose of infallibility and from the mind of the Church. It is, consequently, clear that this infallibility is at least a conclusion from revelation; indeed a conclusion whose validity the Church itself has sanctioned at least by its practical attitude and mode of action. But serious reasons incline us to state that this extension of infallibility — not of course to each of the items considered individually above, but to related matters in general — is a formally revealed truth. There is no doubt that our Lord promised His Church the “Spirit of truth” (John 14:17), who would teach “the whole range of truth” (John 16:13); the apostle calls the Church the pillar and bulwark of truth (I Tim. 3:15).(23) What, then, does the word “truth” or the phrase “the whole range of truth” mean in these texts: just revealed truth, or all the truth which the Church, in view of its special purpose, must know with certainty? The answer seems to be that since the terms are general, and the purpose of the Church militates against their being restricted to revealed truths, they must doubtless be understood as referring to all doctrines which concern Christian faith and morality either directly or indirectly. In other words, they must include also matters connected with revealed truth.

    This is why Cardinal Franzelin could in the following way describe the general proposition of infallibility in related matters: this assertion, “as all theologians agree, is so certain that its denial would be an error, or even, in the opinion of many, a heresy, even though it has not as yet been explicitly condemned as heretical.”(24)

    Full text found HERE

    (Monsignor G. Van Noort, S.T.D., Dogmatic Theology, Volume II, Christ's Church, Translated and Revised by John J. Castelot, S.S., S.T.D., S.S.L. & William R. Murphy, S.S., S.T.D., The Newman Press, Westminster, Maryland, 1957. pp 102-124.)
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Mabel

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 12:05:03 AM »
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  • This is an absolutely excellent post.

    I'm sure someone will come on and deny it without citing pertinent sources soon.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 06:19:13 AM »
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  • I predict that this issue of canonizations not being defined will be resolved after the upcoming canonizations.  Because these canonizations will cause a lot of problems within the Church, we will see a pronouncement that canonizations are infallible, period.

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline bowler

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 07:50:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ambrose
    Assertion 5: The Church's infallibility extends to the canonization of saints. This is the common opinion today. (19)


    If JPII is canonized all it means is he is then in heaven. That's it. And that is IF canonizations are infallible, which is not really a defined dogma.



    Offline SJB

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 09:06:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Assertion 5: The Church's infallibility extends to the canonization of saints. This is the common opinion today. (19)


    If JPII is canonized all it means is he is then in heaven. That's it. And that is IF canonizations are infallible, which is not really a defined dogma.




    This just proves my accusation concerning you. You hold to the same error condemned by Pope Pius IX.

    Quote from: Scheeben
    VII. The judicial, legislative, and other similar acts of the members of the Teaching Apostolate are not all absolutely binding rules of Faith and theological thought, but rather resemble police regulations. These disciplinary measures may under certain circuмstances command at least a respectful and confident assent, the refusal of which involves disrespect and temerity. For instance, when the Church forbids the teaching of certain points of doctrine, or commands the teaching of one opinion in preference to another, external submission is required, but there is also an obligation to accept the favoured view as morally certain. When a judicial decision has been given on some point of doctrine, but has not been given or approved by the highest authority, such decision per se imposes only the obligation of external obedience. Points of doctrine expressed, recommended, and insisted upon in papal allocutions or encyclical letters but not distinctly defined, may create the obligation of strict obedience and undoubting assent, or may exact merely external submission and approval. Thus in the Rule of Faith we distinguish three degrees: (1) the Rule of Faith in matters directly revealed, exacting the obedience of Faith; (2) the Rule of Faith in matters theologically connected with Revelation, exacting respect and external submission, and, indirectly, internal assent of a certain grade; (3) the Rule of Faith in matters of discipline, exacting submission and reverence.

     The difference between the rules of theological knowledge and the disciplinary measures is important. The former demand universal and unconditional obedience, the latter only respect and reverence. Moderate Liberalism, represented in the seventeenth century by Holden (Analysis Fidei), in the eighteenth century by Muratori (De Ingeniorum Moderatione and Chrismann (Regula Fidei), is an attempt to conciliate Extreme Liberalism by giving up these various distinctions, and reducing all decisions either to formal definitions of Faith or to mere police regulations.


    You are a liberal, something I've been saying for months now ... or you are a heretic troll.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline SJB

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 09:12:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cardinal Manning, quoted in [i
    The Vatican Council and its Definitions[/i]] “In a word, the whole magisterium or doctrinal authority of the Pontiff as the supreme Doctor of all Christians, is included in this definition of his infallibility. And also all legislative or judicial acts, so far as they are inseparably connected with his doctrinal authority; as for instance, all judgments, sentences, and decisions, which contain the motives of such acts as derived from faith and morals. Under this will come the laws of discipline, canonization of the saints, approbation of Religious Orders, of devotions, and the like; all of which intrinsically contain the truths and principles of faith, morals and piety. The definition, then, does not limit the infallibility of the Pontiff to his supreme acts ex cathedra in faith and morals, but extends his infallibility to all acts in the fullest exercise of his supreme magisterium or doctrinal authority.”
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #6 on: March 05, 2014, 10:36:44 PM »
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  • I agree with Mabel, this is an excellent thread, but please help me to understand.
    If the canonization of saints is infallible, how can the upcoming canonizations be so ncongruous?  

    Thank you for your time.


    Offline Ambrose

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 11:01:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    I agree with Mabel, this is an excellent thread, but please help me to understand.
    If the canonization of saints is infallible, how can the upcoming canonizations be so ncongruous?  

    Thank you for your time.



    There can be no doubt about the infallibility of canonizations.  It is a certain doctrine and must be believed.  

    There can only be one explanation that matches the data to answer your question.  The one canonizing these men is not the Pope.  

    In my opinion, this act is meant to force those who have the Faith but are on the fence about these "Popes," to back down and recognize the Vatican II sect and its teachings as true.  How can canonized Saint Popes have been wrong?  Would anyone dare to speak against St. Pope Pius V and St. Pius X.  Logically, then, one would also need to treat "St. Pope John XXIII and St. Pope John Paul II in like manner.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Ambrose

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 11:23:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Assertion 5: The Church's infallibility extends to the canonization of saints. This is the common opinion today. (19)


    If JPII is canonized all it means is he is then in heaven. That's it. And that is IF canonizations are infallible, which is not really a defined dogma.




    If John Paul II is canonized by an antipope, it means nothing.  Canonizations by Popes are infallible, canonizations by antipopes are worthless.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 11:36:50 PM »
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  • Ambrose, thank you.   Now I understand.

    Offline bowler

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    Infallibility of Canonizations
    « Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 03:42:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: bowler
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Assertion 5: The Church's infallibility extends to the canonization of saints. This is the common opinion today. (19)


    If JPII is canonized all it means is he is then in heaven. That's it. And that is IF canonizations are infallible, which is not really a defined dogma.




    This just proves my accusation concerning you. You hold to the same error condemned by Pope Pius IX.

    ...
    You are a liberal, something I've been saying for months now ... or you are a heretic troll.


    Ad-hominem attack and strawman from of a frustrated person with no intellectual response.

    Disprove what I wrote:

    If JPII is canonized all it means is he is then in heaven. That's it. And that is IF canonizations are infallible, which is something the theologians have not definitely decided, nor has it been dogmatically defined.