It seems to me that they also retain the power of orders since this is also linked indirectly to the power of jurisdiction, while directly only to the apostolic succession. The Church has always been very careful before affirming that a validly consecrated Bishop has lost the power of orders after becoming a heretic. Since Protestantism (1517), she still has not declared the sacraments of Lutheran bishops invalid; and only after 300 years did Leo XIII declare the Anglican orders to be invalid. Certainly the same criteria should be applied to the power of orders of the conciliar Popes: It is at the least very early to place in doubt the validity of the sacraments ministered by them.
I can't believe that so much effort some traditional catholics took to investigate and defend ordinations and consecrations of Thuc bishops. But just after one or two reading of the text of new rite of consecration or ordination, they are assured that it must be invalid.
It's not logical nor sincere. Okay, let's say that I presume validity of Thuc consecrations and all ordinations. Why it would be different than Novus ordo ordinations and consecrations?ć
Thare are changes in rites, but who can say 100 % it's not valid because of that?
God ask from all of us humility, in this confusion we can't believe ourselves or rely easily on others to make clear and correct conclusion. I may be wrong, I admit.
All we have are opinions, who can be erronious or correct.
Maybe if the prophecy of three days of darkness come true, and Peter and Paul come down from Hevean and designate a true pope (Angelic Pontiff), who will publish full text of Third Secret of Fatima, consecrate Russia to Our Lady's Immacate Heart, that would be only way I see it from sedevacantist point of view.
We can have one, two or more "false" popes, heretics and apostates, and what would remain from hierarchy if all priests, bishops and cardinals in Novus Ordo are invalid because of the new rites of sacrament?
Indeed, may it will happen just in that way. I know that with this divisions in traditional catholic circles, and sedevacantists, there wouldn't be one pope for all to agree on. That's why some claim that the last valid pope was Pius V., for others are Pius X. and mostly Pius XII. Bishop Sanborn hold theological novel position that pope can be material and not formal. It contradicts Church teaching from Vatican I council.
This opinions have the same level of authority, or lack of it.
It would really have to be something miraculous, impossible to deny to solve this crisis. Our Lady of Good Success said that the restoration of Catholic Church will begin after everything would seem to be lost. It would seem that Catholic Church has disappeared, Our Lord Jesus Christ died on the Cross. With all those wounds, blood and shameful death on the Cross, He showed what His Church would have to go through. I believe in the coming of Age of Peace, Great Monarch, restoration of Christendom, and it would last maybe 40-50 years before coming of Antichrist.
Prophecies of Our Lady indicate this, and prophecies given to Marie Julie Jahenny, bl. Anne Katerina Emmerick also point to apostasy, false church, Vatican II, etc.
Church is indefectible, there are real, strong arguments for sedevacantism, but for me it's risky for salvation of souls. There will be more changes to Novus ordo mass, more heresies, maybe changes in rites of sacraments again.
I don't believe that Francis is the pope, this is way to much to swallow, even more than for Paul VI. and John Paul II.
Regardless, we need to pray for his conversion at least. So many Catholics are still duped by heretic popes, bishops, let's pray for them to discover and practise true, traditional Catholic faith.
Sorry for offtopic, I can't write short post, for some reason....