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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Is Vatican II the revolt that St Paul talks about in 2Thessalonians?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 02:15:59 PM »
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  • ggreg said,
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    So my usual response to these sorts of things is "convergence baby, convergence", by which I mean that events appear to be heading to a crisis point rather than merely be unrelated in time and that still looks to be the case.


    I agree with everything you said, but the above comment is the key one, I think.  Yes, we have world-wide debt at eye-watering levels; the almost complete corruption of the West; the destruction of what was once Christendom; a younger generation which seems to exist in a different reality from the generation I was born into. What's more, we also have what appears to be an attempt to dismantle nation states and enforce some kind of Godless, global governance.

    But there is something else going on, which I first heard about via the videos of Brother Nathanael Kapner.  And when this is added to what you describe above, the whole concoction potentially becomes a truly disastrous mix.

    In a nutshell, the plan is to create a Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates with its capital in Jerusalem.  The culmination of this plan is the rebuilding of the temple in order to welcome the Jewish Messiah who will rule the world, yes the world, from there. If this sounds too much like a conspiracy theory, then consider the following, which according to Brother Nathanael, many Jews take very seriously indeed:

    1) Genesis 15:18,  'That day God made a covenant with Abram, saying: To thy seed will I give this land, from the river of Egypt even to the great river Euphrates.'  

    2) 2 Chronicle 9:13, which describes the tribute exacted by King Solomon over all the surrounding nations,  'And the weight of the gold, that was brought to Solomon every year, was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold.....'

    666 talents of gold paid each year to King Solomon as he reigned from the temple over a land which covered much of the territory described above, that is, from the Egyptian river to the Euphrates.  No Traditional priest I've asked has been able to explain this apparent connection with the number 666 in the Book of Revelations.  Perhaps someone here can.

    And there's more.  Ever heard of the Oded Yinon Plan, which was drawn up in the 1980s to describe how a Greater Israel could be achieved.

    3) The plan all along has been to destabilise the entire region, primarily by destroying the strong Arab regimes of Iraq and Syria.  This is to unleash conflict between the Sunni, the Shia and the Christians, and leave the region wide open for rule by Israel in the name of bringing peace and order.  The Palestinians, meanwhile, are to be expelled from Gaza and the West Bank to somewhere east of the River Jordan.  If you don't trust GlobalResearch as a source, there are plenty of other sources available online.  Just Google 'greater Israel'.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    4)  And then there's this.  Plans to rebuild the temple and welcome the Jewish Messiah who will reign from there.  Who else is this Messiah, but the Antichrist? Here they are actually discussing which happens first, the rebuilding of the temple or the coming of the Messiah.
    https://www.templeinstitute.org/messiah_temple.htm

    Anyway, ggreg, the world situation is as you have described it.  But what if it were to collapse into mayhem, especially in the Middle East, and a figure were to appear, a man of around thirty years of age of stunning appearance; who appeared as a 'holy' man, a 'man of god' promising to bring peace; who performed 'miracles' which would really be tricks and deceptions; who had to be persuaded to accept the crown and to sit in the temple as the Jewish Messiah; and who was also embraced by many people across the world in true ecumenical fashion as one who could unite all nations.  Because this is how some of the Church Fathers describe the Antichrist, as he first appears. Of course, once he gets the crown and sits in the temple, his true nature is revealed.

    Put this together with the situation in the Church - the 'revolt' and the 'one who holds' having been 'taken out of the way' - and that would be convergence, big time.

     

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Is Vatican II the revolt that St Paul talks about in 2Thessalonians?
    « Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 02:29:24 PM »
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  • a.c. I could have sworn I saw an official map constructed in the 40's that showed Israel as you describe, resulting in the takeover of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, etc.  
    It may have been associated with Rabbi Fischmann's testimony to the UN in 1947.  This is described in your link as an address 'to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.” '
    Anyway, this has been in the works for decades.


    Offline awkwardcustomer

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    Is Vatican II the revolt that St Paul talks about in 2Thessalonians?
    « Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 02:42:39 PM »
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  • PerEvangelicaDicta said,
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    a.c. I could have sworn I saw an official map constructed in the 40's that showed Israel as you describe, resulting in the takeover of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, etc.
    It may have been associated with Rabbi Fischmann's testimony to the UN in 1947. This is described in your link as an address 'to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.” '
    Anyway, this has been in the works for decades.


    Is this the one you mean?



    http://cdn.jewsnews.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/663.jpg

    Offline awkwardcustomer

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    Is Vatican II the revolt that St Paul talks about in 2Thessalonians?
    « Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 05:10:12 PM »
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  • 2Vermont,

    The Bible verses were hugely relevant of course. But it also seemed that the situation in the world, together with the state of the Church, and with the plans for a Greater Israel including rebuilding the temple, could all potentially combine to create a perfect storm, in other words, the ideal conditions for the rise of the Antichrist as described by St Paul and in St Matthew's Gospel.

    I also read the Church Fathers, or some of them, on the subject of the Antichrist, and the figure they describe seems almost ideally suited to today's ecumenical, interfaith, united religion kind of world.  There's so much dislocation among people, and stress and worry and doubt, that the figure describes by the Church Fathers would almost certainly have people flocking to him.  

    Of course there's also an abundance of prophecies, visions and apparitions - some approved by the Church, some not - which predict some kind of event - either a chastisement or the consecration of Russia - to be followed by a period of peace and restoration.  This scenario puts the time of the Antichrist way ahead in the future. Perhaps it's the way my mind works but it occurred to me that these could be deliberate decoys to distract Catholics from what's really going on - the preparation for the Antichrist.

    I had always wondered if the 'revolt' described by St Paul was Vatican II.  But it did occur to me in a single moment that the 'one who holds' who has to be 'taken out of the way' could be the Pope.  The 'one who holds' - holds what? - the Keys of course.  The word 'holds' can also be used in the sense of to hold the line, to hold the fort.

    I could be completely wrong about all of this.  The fact that it fits neatly together in my mind doesn't mean a thing. Plenty of people have speculated on this subject, many of them far more qualified to do so than me.  And I'm sure plenty more will.

    Still, it wouldn't do any harm to be flexible in terms of scenarios, to re-read the Church Fathers on the subject and to keep a lookout for the figure they describe so clearly.


    Offline awkwardcustomer

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    Is Vatican II the revolt that St Paul talks about in 2Thessalonians?
    « Reply #19 on: October 17, 2014, 05:20:19 PM »
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  • MyrnaM said,

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    I pray daily for God to end this entire crisis and we can unite and be one fold under a True Shepherd.


    That's an excellent prayer.  As for me, I've decided to start praying that we recognise the Antichrist when he comes, and have the sense to drop everything and head for the mountains and the caves, which is where the Church Fathers I have read said the only safe hiding places will be until Christ comes again.



    Offline awkwardcustomer

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    Is Vatican II the revolt that St Paul talks about in 2Thessalonians?
    « Reply #20 on: October 18, 2014, 01:40:37 PM »
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  • GJC,

    I find this quite difficult to understand. Is St Augustine suggesting that the 'one who holds' is the faithful Catholic and he who has to be 'taken out of the way' is the apostate who has to leave the Church? And that the Antichrist is not merely one person, but the whole body of Catholics who follow his false teachings.

    To put it crudely, Traditionalists and those who keep the Faith in its entirety, it is they who 'hold'.  Whereas the Conciliarists and those who follow them, all the while thinking that they are being Catholic, will be 'taken out of the way' when their numbers are sufficient, or their faithlessness has reached sufficient proportions. Hmmm.... interesting.

    In this context, could Medjugurje be a 'sign' and/or a 'lying wonder'?


     

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