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Author Topic: I am considering sedevacantism  (Read 23453 times)

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Offline DZ PLEASE

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Re: I am considering sedevacantism
« Reply #165 on: November 01, 2017, 06:36:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Fanny on November 01, 2017, 05:58:13 PM
    Amazingly, I actually agree with you.
    No ma'am, you do not.
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    Online Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #166 on: November 02, 2017, 03:35:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on November 01, 2017, 04:28:46 PM
    When I continue to get responses like these from you, this is when I question whether you are of good will...and whether I can ever discuss anything with you:  

    I keep telling you that we were discussing whether there is Church teaching to support the opinion (your opinion) that a pope can be the Head of a false church and the true church at the same time.  

    You and I were NOT discussing Vatican I here.  You and I were NOT discussing the SV position vs the sedeplenist position here.  You and I WERE discussing whether a pope can be the Head of a false church and the True Church at the same time.  

    It is a very specific focus.  For most of our discussion you seemed to stay on topic, but your last few posts seem to want to change the focus of this conversation.  So that you and the readers are clear on what the original focus was:

    Let 's be clear here Stubborn.  You and I were discussing Church teaching that backed the idea that a true pope could be the head of two churches..one true and one false.  You never provided proof that your theory is true. Therefore you have NO business telling me that I should exchange my opinion for "the (your) truth". Your "truth" is just your opinion.  Until you can provide clear Catholic teaching that a true pope can head Christ's church and a false church at the same time, that is all it will ever be.

    I'm not interested in going any further with you on this topic because I think you and I have said our piece, but I wanted to try to clear up any confusion our most recent interactions may have caused here.
    Fine then, be done and don't reply, I completely understand your frustration - though your frustration is certainly with me, it is actually with quoted Church teaching. I pray some day soon you will realize that, honest, I really do pray that.

    The Church teaching that addresses your question regarding today's reality about the pope being head of two churches, is the same Scripture you opine does not teach what it teaches, namely, that it is by Divine Law that a pope remains pope, period, and because no qualifications are in the law, this does not change no mater what else he may be - even if while pope, he heads another, false church, or two or more for that matter.

    As the direct infallible quote from V1 clearly states, the Church anathematizes whoever says the pope is not the pope - so no matter whatever else you think, for your own good and the good of those in your care, don't keep saying it. End of story.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #167 on: November 02, 2017, 03:48:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: StCeciliasGirl on November 01, 2017, 06:03:05 PM
    Oh woah: sorry I burst in. I was back on first pages. Please forgive; I should have read whole thread first but was disturbed by a recent happening in news. My bad!

    For what it's worth, my opinion and I hope we ALL agree on this, there is no way a Pope can be Vicar of True Church and "head" of false church at the same time. Surely we all agree on that. That is also in Holy Writ. By +Jesus Himself. That "house divided against itself" bit.

    God bless!
    Feel free to burst in any time.

     The point we can all agree on, the point we are actually bound under pain of mortal sin to agree on, is that whoever says the pope is not the pope anathematizes themselves. The reason we must all agree on that is because it is a dogma of the Catholic Church, decreed during the First Vatican Council and by, yep, you guessed it - by a "true" pope, Pius IX.

    This is a dogmatic fact, is not anyone's opinion. We should be thankful that V1 taught us what we must believe in the matter thereby wholly removing our opinion from the formula.

    "Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema." - Pope Pius IX at the First Vatican Council

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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #168 on: November 02, 2017, 03:49:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on November 02, 2017, 03:35:40 AM
    ... your frustration is certainly with me, it is actually with quoted Church teaching.
    i.e., "Stubborn" = "Church teaching"? 

    Freudian slip, and matching teddy?

    What other LOGICAL alternatives can there possibly be?

    No Stubborn, I'm still not knowingly talking to liars, sophists, or question begging  heretics such as yourself.

    But please, don't disappoint us by omitting the infil of your standard,  bullshit, Jєωfinger response now.
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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #169 on: November 02, 2017, 03:50:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lastdays on October 31, 2017, 08:30:08 AM
    Resistance is not appropriate in the current situation. A true Pope can never bind the whole Church to error. This goes against the promises of Christ.
    I thought perhaps you needed a little example, so here is an example of a pope binding the whole Church - from V1:

    "Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema."

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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #170 on: November 02, 2017, 03:57:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on November 02, 2017, 03:49:02 AM
    i.e., "Stubborn" = "Church teaching"?

    Freudian slip, and matching teddy?

    What other LOGICAL alternatives can there possibly be?

    No Stubborn, I'm still not knowingly talking to liars, sophists, or question begging  heretics such as yourself.

    But please, don't disappoint us by omitting the infil of your standard,  bullshit, Jєωfinger response now.
    Don't be shy, tell us what you really think!

    All you have is stupidity galore, all you ever offer is ridiculous ad homenems against my person, and that in order to side track the fact that you have no faith. Learn the Catholic faith or keep side tracking that you have none. There see, now you have a choice. :)

    How long were you in the Novus Ordo?


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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #171 on: November 02, 2017, 04:07:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on November 02, 2017, 03:57:01 AM
    Don't be shy, tell us what you really think!

    >>> As opposed to LYING HERETICS like Stubborn, who don't have the stones to just say that they think Christ lies.

    All you have is stupidity galore, all you ever offer is ridiculous ad homenems against my person,

    >> Says the LYING HERETIC who is his own "Ad hominem" (like this is a LOGICAL argument in the first place) against his own "person".

    >> His father? Still THE DEVIL.
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    Online Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #172 on: November 02, 2017, 04:31:29 AM »
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    • Something I find interesting that a lot of folks may not realize, is that there are an awful lot of today's dogmatic sedes who were either Novus Ordo for some length of time, or came from the Novus Ordo right into sedeism, where dogma is heresy and heresy is dogma.

    A while back, I even checked on some of "The Nine", those whose info in that regards is advertised on the web. The chief instigators of sedeism -  Fr. Cekada, Bishops Dolan, Kelly and Sanborn, were all NO and all had NO training prior to their entrance into Econe, coincidence? I think not.

    So how long were you in the NO?
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #173 on: November 02, 2017, 04:40:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on November 02, 2017, 04:31:29 AM
    Fr. Cekada, Bishops Dolan, Kelly and Sanborn, were all NO and all had NO training prior to their entrance into Econe, which must be where the sedes got placing so high a value on their own opinions.
    Turds of a Stubborn feather...
    HERETICS ALL, so "Who cares, and why?"
    They will be proximate to the "stubborns" of the world in Hell.

    Irrelevant to THE FAITH.
    Come with LOGICAL correction, or "Don't come at all."

    Enough was miles back. I don't care if you're butt hurt. I don't care if you're offended. I don't care if you're the site owner. I only care if you are Catholic, and can PROVE how I"m not being the same, and do so AS A CATHOLIC.
    s
    Otherwise, get bent. You're worthy of the same consideration as a Satanist and are likely, at LEAST substantially, THE SAME THING.

    Patience is a virtue, and TEMPERANCE is another.

    Enough is enough.
    Delete my account, answer THAT ASKED,  or just just SHUT UP.

    Jesus Christ is NOT A way, A truth, or A life.

    S. Catherine of Siena, this world is beyond rotten from silence and castrati, please pray for us.
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    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #174 on: November 02, 2017, 04:44:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on November 02, 2017, 04:40:17 AM



    Enough is enough.
    Delete my account, answer THAT ASKED,  or just just SHUT UP.
    Matthew, please make his wish come true!


    Please don’t construe this as a defense, in any way, of Stubborn’s post.
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    Online Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #175 on: November 02, 2017, 04:46:54 AM »
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    • Did you forget to take your meds?

    I know sedes are generally afraid to answer questions, but dang, when such a simple question like that enrages  :cussing: you so terribly, that's not good, no, not good at all.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #176 on: November 02, 2017, 04:48:44 AM »
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    • Agreed, or get off the pot. Fences demarc sides, they aren't sides.

    Take a stand Matt. Am I a brother, or am I an enemy?

    Tread cautiously, for you you will answer.

    Who will you serve? HOw much does the digital Mammon pay?

    Is it worth your soul, that of your wife, or of your children?

    If I'm an enemy, then squeeze, don't pull.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #177 on: November 02, 2017, 04:53:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on November 02, 2017, 03:35:40 AM
    Fine then, be done and don't reply, I completely understand your frustration - though your frustration is certainly with me, it is actually with quoted Church teaching. I pray some day soon you will realize that, honest, I really do pray that.

    The Church teaching that addresses your question regarding today's reality about the pope being head of two churches, is the same Scripture you opine does not teach what it teaches, namely, that it is by Divine Law that a pope remains pope, period, and because no qualifications are in the law, this does not change no mater what else he may be - even if while pope, he heads another, false church, or two or more for that matter.

    As the direct infallible quote from V1 clearly states, the Church anathematizes whoever says the pope is not the pope - so no matter whatever else you think, for your own good and the good of those in your care, don't keep saying it. End of story.
    You, sir, have not proven that Matthew 16:18 teaches any such thing.  And yes, I won't respond to anything you write until you have Catholic teaching that teaches that the Vicar of Christ can be the Head of Christ's Church and various false churches at the same time. 
       
    St Cecelia's Girl...

    As you can see, we don't all agree that the Vicar of Christ can not be the Head of a False Church in addition to Christ's Church.  In fact, it now appears that, according to some, the Vicar of Christ can also be the Head of MULTIPLE false churches in addition to Christs' Church.  

    By the way, there is nothing wrong with your "bursting in".  The thread itself was more general and allowed for any comments.  I was just referring to the specific sub-topic Stubborn and I were discussing as a result of Fanny's post #127 on page 9 (there she stated that "It is more plausible that the pope is the head of two churches." ).  You can start there to read the discussion he and I were having if you are interested in seeing exactly how it evolved.  Unfortunately I still haven't got a response from the person I questioned, Fanny.  

    As a side note:  this formatting is truly frustrating.  Why does it increase the size of fonts when I don't ask it to do so? 
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #178 on: November 02, 2017, 04:55:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on November 02, 2017, 04:40:17 AM
    Enough was miles back. I don't care if you're butt hurt. I don't care if you're offended. I don't care if you're the site owner. I only care if you are Catholic, and can PROVE how I"m not being the same, and do so AS A CATHOLIC.
    s
    All who claim the name Catholic are bound under pain of mortal sin to this dogma since it was decreed till the end of time. It's a yes or no answer - Is pope Francis the successor of St. Peter?

    "Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema."




    Quote
    Otherwise, get bent. You're worthy of the same consideration as a Satanist and are likely, at LEAST substantially, THE SAME THING.

    Now you get bent.
    .
    .
    .
    Go ahead, go bend yourself.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #179 on: November 02, 2017, 05:01:08 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on November 02, 2017, 04:53:07 AM
    As a side note:  this formatting is truly frustrating.  Why does it increase the size of fonts when I don't ask it to do so?
    AMEN and add, regardless of what "side" you find yourself on, for you thus far haven't shown yourself a LIAR which is the Devil's, because there is a word for "Heaven", and a word for "Earth" for a very good reason.

    That's why.
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