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Author Topic: I am considering sedevacantism  (Read 23645 times)

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Offline Fanny

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Re: I am considering sedevacantism
« Reply #105 on: October 30, 2017, 04:58:01 PM »
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  • .
    I guess length of time, necessarily, is a prerequisite for knowing the truth?  .
    .
    Not at all, but it takes time to find the truth.


    Offline Fanny

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #106 on: October 30, 2017, 05:13:23 PM »
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    Rely on Our Lady and the Holy Ghost, by saying the Rosary everyday, all 15 decades.  Then see how long it takes!?
    .
    Sometimes hard to distinguish.
    Short for some, longer for most.
    The middle ground is hard to find.  Not too liberal, not too nit-picky.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #107 on: October 30, 2017, 05:27:40 PM »
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  • It is more plausible that the pope is the head of two churches.  

    It is?  How so?  Where does the Catholic Church teach that this is possible?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #108 on: October 30, 2017, 06:17:37 PM »
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  • I am a revert to the faith since around 2010. I came into the church under pope Benedict 16. I have studied as much of the faith as I am able to comprehend. I am certainly no theologian and actually more of a tradesman. A couple of things have been persuading me that the sedevecantist are correct. Comparing the church we have now to what it was before V2 it seems clear that a defacto new religion was created. I know that dogma has remained the same however the actual teaching of priests and bishops ignores much pre v2 morality. There is no preaching on sɛҳuąƖ morality including contraception or adultery, no preaching on confession or sin, no preaching on our duty as Catholics to obey church teaching. I don't see how the current church bears any resemblance to what my Catholic ancestors experienced. Now we have a pope that is sort of just rolling out policy after policy that seems to diminish the churches teachings for example Amoris Lateticia. Any thought on why you don't flee the church are welcome. God Bless!
    OP....are you still around?  I see you posted this almost 10 days ago and never returned to the thread.  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #109 on: October 30, 2017, 06:57:44 PM »
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  • It is?  How so?  Where does the Catholic Church teach that this is possible?
    Welcome to "Idiot Alley" man.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline poche

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #110 on: October 31, 2017, 12:20:20 AM »
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  • Anyway, there can be no question about the following four points:
    • Pope Benedict XVI (a) announced that he would resign, (b) announced his resignation, (c) has mentioned his resignation since, and (d) has steadfastly avoided the slightest suggestion that he still has any claim on the See of Peter. Although he is officially called Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, Joseph Ratzinger (his birth name) stated that he preferred to be called simply “Father Benedict”.
    • Pope Francis was duly elected Pope by the College of Cardinals.
    • There is absolutely no other way for a pope to lose his office except through death or resignation. He cannot lose it through “heresy”, nor can he lose it because of sin, nor for gross ineptitude.
    • The Church has all the guarantees she needs in her Divine Constitution to endure a pope who may be very bad in any number of ways, without any danger that the truths of the Faith will be abrogated, that the sacraments will lose their power, that Christ will cease to be the Church’s head and bridegroom, or that Christ’s promise to be with her will become void.

    http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=1515

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #111 on: October 31, 2017, 12:23:23 AM »
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  • Anyway, there can be no question about the following four points:
    • Pope Benedict XVI (a) announced that he would resign, (b) announced his resignation, (c) has mentioned his resignation since, and (d) has steadfastly avoided the slightest suggestion that he still has any claim on the See of Peter. Although he is officially called Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, Joseph Ratzinger (his birth name) stated that he preferred to be called simply “Father Benedict”.
    • Pope Francis was duly elected Pope by the College of Cardinals.
    • There is absolutely no other way for a pope to lose his office except through death or resignation. He cannot lose it through “heresy”, nor can he lose it because of sin, nor for gross ineptitude.
    • The Church has all the guarantees she needs in her Divine Constitution to endure a pope who may be very bad in any number of ways, without any danger that the truths of the Faith will be abrogated, that the sacraments will lose their power, that Christ will cease to be the Church’s head and bridegroom, or that Christ’s promise to be with her will become void.

    http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=1515
    Keep on lying over time P, and people with think it's the real thing.

    "Intellectual Historian" of the NO, and what does he do? Lead off with name-calling masses of people.

    Classic.

    Joke.

    Credibility in the deep negatives.

    Way to link though P.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #112 on: October 31, 2017, 03:39:42 AM »
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  • It is?  How so?  Where does the Catholic Church teach that this is possible?
    Yes.

    Reality.

    In Scripture.

    Where does the Catholic Church teach this is impossible?
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #113 on: October 31, 2017, 04:47:21 AM »
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  • Yes.

    Reality.

    In Scripture.

    Where does the Catholic Church teach this is impossible?
    Hi Stubborn...please share the source of the Catholic teaching (whether through Scripture or otherwise) that teaches that the Pope can be the head of two separate churches, the Catholic Church and some other church.  

    It's always been my understanding that the Church and Scripture teaches that Christ made St Peter the Head of one church, Christ's Church.  Christ doesn't have two different Churches.  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #114 on: October 31, 2017, 04:55:16 AM »
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  • Hi Stubborn...please share the source of the Catholic teaching (whether through Scripture or otherwise) that teaches that the Pope can be the head of two separate churches, the Catholic Church and some other church.  

    It's always been my understanding that the Church and Scripture teaches that Christ made St Peter the Head of one church, Christ's Church.  Christ doesn't have two different Churches.  
    It's you're understanding because, thus fare, you've not shown yourself to be either a liar, or an idiot.

    He's being stupid, or lying. It's counter to reason on its face, before you even get into Catholic teaching.

    Regardless, he's living down to his name, and continues to manifest a monstrous will.

    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #115 on: October 31, 2017, 05:11:06 AM »
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  • It's you're understanding because, thus fare, you've not shown yourself to be either a liar, or an idiot.

    He's being stupid, or lying. It's counter to reason on its face, before you even get into Catholic teaching.

    Regardless, he's living down to his name, and continues to manifest a monstrous will.
    It's just that idiots like yourself don't speaka da lango. Your bad will begins and ends at the rejection of the dogma, when you chose hell over heaven for the sake of your own opinion.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #116 on: October 31, 2017, 05:27:19 AM »
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  • Hi Stubborn...please share the source of the Catholic teaching (whether through Scripture or otherwise) that teaches that the Pope can be the head of two separate churches, the Catholic Church and some other church.  

    It's always been my understanding that the Church and Scripture teaches that Christ made St Peter the Head of one church, Christ's Church.  Christ doesn't have two different Churches.  
    Hi 2V. You certainly are correct, Christ has only one Church and He made St. Peter and his successors the head of His one Church. St. Peter's conciliar successors made themselves head of the conciliar Church, God didn't do that, they did it themselves, entirely on their own of their own free will.

    Where does the Catholic Church teach this is impossible?

    As for the Church teaching the pope can be head of two Churches, the Scripture I was thinking about probably doesn't apply except indirectly since it is by way of allegory, not literal. Check out Jeremias, the whole chapter 23 is very good, verse 16 in particular since by way of example, instructs us as to what we are to do about the conciliar popes and hierarchy.        
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #117 on: October 31, 2017, 07:05:47 AM »
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  • Hi 2V. You certainly are correct, Christ has only one Church and He made St. Peter and his successors the head of His one Church. St. Peter's conciliar successors made themselves head of the conciliar Church, God didn't do that, they did it themselves, entirely on their own of their own free will.

    Where does the Catholic Church teach this is impossible?

    As for the Church teaching the pope can be head of two Churches, the Scripture I was thinking about probably doesn't apply except indirectly since it is by way of allegory, not literal. Check out Jeremias, the whole chapter 23 is very good, verse 16 in particular since by way of example, instructs us as to what we are to do about the conciliar popes and hierarchy.        
    OK, so this Old Testament passage doesn't teach the pope can be the head of two churches.  The Haydock Catholic commentary doesn't even mention the pope.
       
    When Christ dubs Peter "The Rock" because of his profession of faith and states that He would build His Church on him, how does having a Peter who simultaneously heads up, is a member of, and professes the faith of a false church maintain his position as "The Rock"?  This Scripture passage shows that a pope of the Catholic Church couldn't possibly be "The Rock" of the Catholic Church if he also headed up and professed the faith of a false church. 
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #118 on: October 31, 2017, 08:03:51 AM »
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  • OK, so this Old Testament passage doesn't teach the pope can be the head of two churches.  The Haydock Catholic commentary doesn't even mention the pope.
    Maybe 3rd times the charm.......Where does the Catholic Church teach this is impossible?

    The Scripture I referenced merely shows that pastors and prophets (the pope and hierarchy) can teach heresies and when they do, we are not to listen to them. It is a very good allegory for today's crisis:  "For the prophet and the priest (pope? and hierarchy) are defiled: and in my house (the Church) I have found their wickedness, saith the Lord.....Hearken not (don't listen to him)  to the words of the prophets that prophesy to you, and deceive you".




    Quote
    When Christ dubs Peter "The Rock" because of his profession of faith and states that He would build His Church on him, how does having a Peter who simultaneously heads up, is a member of, and professes the faith of a false church maintain his position as "The Rock"?  This Scripture passage shows that a pope of the Catholic Church couldn't possibly be "The Rock" of the Catholic Church if he also headed up and professed the faith of a false church.
    He maintains his position as "The Rock" because that position was assigned specifically to him by Christ, which means no matter what he does in any respect or disrespect to that assignment, he is "The Rock" via the command of God the Son.

    Christ did not give him that position conditionally or on any type of temporary basis - such a thing is not even implied anywhere in Scripture.

    He's "The Rock" because God made *him* "The Rock", from that moment on, outside of his death or abdication, there is nothing on earth that can ever change that by virtue of the command of God - so when the pope decides he wants to head two churches, though he sins terribly, he still remains the pope, head of Christ's Church on earth, by virtue of the directive from God, meanwhile, he starts and heads up his own church at the same time - woe unto him is what we all say: "Woe to the pastors, that destroy and tear the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord."


    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #119 on: October 31, 2017, 08:32:00 AM »
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  • Maybe 3rd times the charm.......Where does the Catholic Church teach this is impossible?


    I answered your question with Scripture.  You disagree with me.  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)