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Author Topic: I am considering sedevacantism  (Read 23451 times)

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Offline Augustine Linst

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Re: I am considering sedevacantism
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2017, 10:20:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: happenby on Today at 07:03:39 AM

    On the contrary, news from the Vatican indicates that Francis most likely will impose changes in the Latin Mass to make it comply with the Novus Ordo. There will be calendar changes with the addition of NewChurch NO saints, additional NewChurch readings (OT and NT), NewChurch prefaces taken from the Novus Ordo, etc.  All those attending Latin Masses under the jurisdiction of Francis will be affected with no exceptions allowed except temporary exemptions. If SSPX folds and comes under Francis, then most likely SSPX will be forced to comply with these new regulations. If SSPX does not comply once they have joined forces with the Vatican, then the local ordinaries (bishops) might seize their chapels and schools. And yes, this is a warning to SSPX faithful who have contributed to building funds. All those funds will be taken away.
    This and the links in the same article show the trap you are mentioning M.R.


    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #61 on: October 22, 2017, 12:42:28 PM »
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  • Thanks for the doc, I appreciate it.
    You are most welcome!


    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #62 on: October 22, 2017, 01:46:10 PM »
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  • Pius XII as Pacelli worked on the Code of Canon Law in 1917. That involved a lot of changes.

    It was ordered by St. Pius X and was necessary to codify the code. All of the laws in the 1917 code are good and holy.

    Then Pius XII permitted Holy Mass to be celebrated in the vernacular during World War II in England, France, and Germany. Since people in Europe got used to hearing the Mass in the vernacular, was it no surprise that this New Mass would be forced on us? Pius XII was no dummy.

    I have heard this accusation before, however please cite proof. Also, even if it were true, it is not contrary to any article of faith.

    Finally, Pius XII established Diocesan Liturgical Commissions throughout the world when he published his encyclical Mystici corporis Christi on 29 June 1943. If the Mass were not broken, why would Pius XII ask all dioceses to establish these diocesan liturgical commissions? What was the purpose of these commission? These commissions ultimately paved the way for the disastrous Vatican II council and the Novus Ordo.

    There have always been changes and improvements in the liturgy throughout the history of the Church. This can in no way whatsoever be used to condemn Pope Pius XII.

    Yes, I realize that the initial papers for Vatican II were much better than the final drafts. Nevertheless, it was Pius XII who initiated the plans for Vatican II, and it was he who initiated all the changes in the Code of Canon Law of 1917.

    Even if it were true that VII was planned during the reign of Pius XII, it proves absolutely nothing.

    I have read the encyclical Mystici corporis Christi several times. First for my college classes, then in a study group, and finally as a review. I was never impressed by it as it seemed so deceptive.

    In my opinion it was a great encyclical that is so extremely important today. If you want to make the argument that Pius XII was imprudent, was a weak leader, or didn’t do enough to rid the Church of modernists, yes you can make that argument (I wouldn’t nessessarly agree with it), however to claim that he wasn’t a true pope is just plain irresponsible, foolish, and ignorant.



    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #63 on: October 22, 2017, 01:51:42 PM »
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  • The
    I don't that she's an adequate grounding in basics here, such as those between "accident" and "substance".

    "First things first".

    Pretty solid post though; I'm noticing a very "Home-aloney/Tricky Dick Ibranyi" trend among trads(?) nowadays.

    It certainly isn't waning.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #64 on: October 22, 2017, 02:38:09 PM »
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  • Maria Regina subconsciously perhaps you think about home alone because you haven't found a priest that agrees with you about PiusXII.

    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #65 on: October 22, 2017, 03:19:08 PM »
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  • Maria Regina subconsciously perhaps you think about home alone because you haven't found a priest that agrees with you about PiusXII.
    Oh, I have, but it is a great distance to travel to see him in person (12 hours or more) as taking a plane is not an option. We chat over the phone and that helps. He said that there are others who disagree with Pius XII, but many of those priests are elderly, and likewise cannot travel.

    The publication of Hitler's Pope opened my eyes and that of my priest, and so did other publications. Pius XII made a lot of serious mistakes and was not consistent. Definitely he was pushed into a corner and was threatened by Hitler, the Freemasons, and others into taking certain actions which had horrible consequences. However, some of his appointments and some of those he consecrated to bishop should never have taken place as he put into place those cardinals (1) those who would elect the anti-Pope John XXIII; (2) those who would betray the Catholic Church at Vatican II; and (3) those who would promote the Novus Ordo and all the sacramental changes.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #66 on: October 23, 2017, 01:50:48 PM »
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  • Oh, I have, but it is a great distance to travel to see him in person (12 hours or more) as taking a plane is not an option. We chat over the phone and that helps. He said that there are others who disagree with Pius XII, but many of those priests are elderly, and likewise cannot travel.

    The publication of Hitler's Pope opened my eyes and that of my priest, and so did other publications. Pius XII made a lot of serious mistakes and was not consistent. Definitely he was pushed into a corner and was threatened by Hitler, the Freemasons, and others into taking certain actions which had horrible consequences. However, some of his appointments and some of those he consecrated to bishop should never have taken place as he put into place those cardinals (1) those who would elect the anti-Pope John XXIII; (2) those who would betray the Catholic Church at Vatican II; and (3) those who would promote the Novus Ordo and all the sacramental changes.
    .
    I find your denouncement of Pope Pius XII interesting. I don't agree with your conclusions, however.
    .
    If Pius XII was not really a pope then his solemn definition of Our Lady's Assumption in 1950 was allowed by God to take place even though it would have been a deception for the whole world. All the saints canonized by Pius XII would have been for the deception of the world and some or even all of them were not really saints at all. This would include the canonizations of not only Pope St. Pius X, for example, but also St. Catherine Laboure, St. Gemma Galgani, St. Louis Grignion de Montfort, St. Maria Goretti and St. Anthony Mary Claret, among many others. 
    .
    However, I find it interesting what you have done by carrying the criticism of the many shortcomings of Pius XII to the apparently logical extreme of condemning his whole pontificate (against all reason, it seems to me) because this is something that the CMRI fails to do. You are doing what I should expect of the CMRI, since they condemn John XXIII and all his successors on the same grounds, but they refuse to carry that same denouncement to the papacy of Pius XII.
    .
    In fact, when questioned about these failures of Pius XII, CMRI priests get visibly upset. They don't like such questions. They act like these are personal insults or something like that.
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    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #67 on: October 23, 2017, 02:14:05 PM »
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  • Very, very few people who realize that the Roman See is vacant hold that Pope Pius XII was not a true pope. As a matter of fact, this is only the second or third person I've ever encountered that holds this position. Just because the truth is not to your liking doesn’t make it untrue.
    So your red herring is just that, a red herring.
    My "red herring" is this:
    It is a very slippery slope when one uses their own private judgement to determine whether or not a pope is a true pope. When a catholic goes around basing the validity of a papal election(an act administration) on a debated claim(that a heretic "ipso facto" loses his office), using his own private judgement to decide whether it meets the criteria, ridiculous claims like these happen. I wonder if the poster I was referring to holds St. Pius X as an anti-pope for changing the breviary(?). Using the "ipso facto" argument and cuм Ex to determine who is a pope would mean that numerous true popes in Catholic history were actually anti-popes. Do you see the absurdity in this way of thinking?
    +Truth and Justice for all+
                  JMJ


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #68 on: October 23, 2017, 02:24:37 PM »
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  • Pius XII as Pacelli worked on the Code of Canon Law in 1917. That involved a lot of changes.

    Then Pius XII permitted Holy Mass to be celebrated in the vernacular during World War II in England, France, and Germany. Since people in Europe got used to hearing the Mass in the vernacular, was it no surprise that this New Mass would be forced on us? Pius XII was no dummy.
    .
    Prior to the first Code of Canon Law (1917) there had never been any such Code. So there had been nothing to "change."
    .
    The enormity and devastation of WWI had profoundly affected then Bishop Eugenio Pacelli, which is evident from the fact that he was a close associate of Benedict XV and of Pius XI, whose writings are readily available to read. When Pius XII first came to office Europe was obviously on the verge of another great war, and Pius XII was right in the middle of it. He must have been terrified. It's not impossible to see that his allowing the Mass to be vernacularized in some places had been an act of desperation. Keeping the Mass in Latin didn't help avoid WWI, after all. Why would it help avoid WWII? 
    .
    Quote
    Finally, Pius XII established Diocesan Liturgical Commissions throughout the world when he published his encyclical Mystici corporis Christi on 29 June 1943. If the Mass were not broken, why would Pius XII ask all dioceses to establish these diocesan liturgical commissions? What was the purpose of these commission? These commissions ultimately paved the way for the disastrous Vatican II council and the Novus Ordo.

    Yes, I realize that the initial papers for Vatican II were much better than the final drafts. Nevertheless, it was Pius XII who initiated the plans for Vatican II, and it was he who initiated all the changes in the Code of Canon Law of 1917.

    I have read the encyclical Mystici corporis Christi several times. First for my college classes, then in a study group, and finally as a review. I was never impressed by it as it seemed so deceptive.
    .
    When Pius XII set up the liturgical commissions he was trying something new in hopes of finding a solution to the numerous problems the world was facing, and he no doubt had problematic advisers. The solution he was groping for could have easily been achieved by making the Collegial Consecration of Russia together with all the bishops of the world. For whatever reason, he apparently listened to his advisers instead of to the actual request of Our Lady. This is very mysterious. 
    .
    The language of Mystici Corporis Christi was beginning to resemble that which was used throughout Vat.II. While the things that he said in the encyclical are very good things, the WAY he said them was a bit different, and in retrospect could have been better. Also, there were some issues that Pius XII fell short of addressing at the time which he did for whatever reasons, but later they would become opportunities for the Church's enemies to make progress against the Church. It seems to me that he was trying to make accommodation to the modern world, expecting that would help encourage world peace. He lent his ear also to impostors, perhaps by mistake, and I think he had good intentions but was under enormous pressure to modernize things. Being Pope in those days was no walk in the park.
    .
    If it was difficult to be Pope in those days, imagine how difficult it would be TODAY. Blessed Jacinta Marto had it right when she advocated prayer and sacrifice for the Holy Father.
    .
    Perhaps the worst effect of sedevacantism is that it deprives the current pope from prayers of Catholics. That many more Masses are said without mention of prayers for the Holy Father (because of the "una cuм" dissension).
    .
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #69 on: October 23, 2017, 02:47:34 PM »
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  • .
    Prior to the first Code of Canon Law (1917) there had never been any such Code. So there had been nothing to "change."

    Prior to the first Code of Canon Law (1917) there were the Ancient Canons which had anathemas on them. These Holy Canons were penned by Ecuмenical Councils and considered to be infallible. Thus, changing them carried great risk of heresy and/or certainly opened the door for heresy.

    These Holy Canons should have never been changed, but changed they were to accommodate the modernists and Freemasons who were already in the Vatican.

    .
    The enormity and devastation of WWI had profoundly affected then Bishop Eugenio Pacelli, which is evident from the fact that he was a close associate of Benedict XV and of Pius XI, whose writings are readily available to read. When Pius XII first came to office Europe was obviously on the verge of another great war, and Pius XII was right in the middle of it. He must have been terrified. It's not impossible to see that his allowing the Mass to be vernacularized in some places had been an act of desperation. Keeping the Mass in Latin didn't help avoid WWI, after all. Why would it help avoid WWII?

    This does not follow at all.

    If you believe that the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) can be changed into the vernacular thereby inadvertently introducing changes through errors of translation, then yes, the vernacularization of the TLM would be a danger. And if you believe that the TLM imparts grace, then denying the use of the TLM would cut off graces. WWII was far worse than WWI.

    ..
    When Pius XII set up the liturgical commissions he was trying something new in hopes of finding a solution to the numerous problems the world was facing, and he no doubt had problematic advisers. The solution he was groping for could have easily been achieved by making the Collegial Consecration of Russia together with all the bishops of the world. For whatever reason, he apparently listened to his advisers instead of to the actual request of Our Lady. This is very mysterious.

    It sounds like you are grasping at straws here.  There was no need for these liturgical commissions. Besides, Pius XII had opened Pandora's box by letting certain countries experiment liturgically, changing not only the TLM into the vernacular, but introducing other liturgical novelties and practices such as that done by the infamous Jesuit, Teillard de Chardin. All Pius XII needed to do was stop these illicit liturgical practices, but he set up liturgical commissions instead -- liturgical commissions that would speed the progress of the modernists and Freemasons in the church who desired even more innovations, so that the sacredness of the Mass would be destroyed, as it has been.

    .
    The language of Mystici Corporis Christi was beginning to resemble that which was used throughout Vat.II. While the things that he said in the encyclical are very good things, the WAY he said them was a bit different, and in retrospect could have been better. Also, there were some issues that Pius XII fell short of addressing at the time which he did for whatever reasons, but later they would become opportunities for the Church's enemies to make progress against the Church. It seems to me that he was trying to make accommodation to the modern world, expecting that would help encourage world peace. He lent his ear also to impostors, perhaps by mistake, and I think he had good intentions but was under enormous pressure to modernize things. Being Pope in those days was no walk in the park.

    Pius XII was a modernist who spoke the language of modernists.
    .
    If it was difficult to be Pope in those days, imagine how difficult it would be TODAY. Blessed Jacinta Marto had it right when she advocated prayer and sacrifice for the Holy Father.
    .
    Perhaps the worst effect of sedevacantism is that it deprives the current pope from prayers of Catholics. That many more Masses are said without mention of prayers for the Holy Father (because of the "una cuм" dissension).

    On the contrary, every time Francis opens his mouth, more people pray for Francis, that he will be converted.  How can those who love Christ not pray for those who oppose Christ for Christ our God told us to pray for our enemies, and unfortunately, Francis has become our enemy.

    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #70 on: October 23, 2017, 03:31:35 PM »
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  • Quote
    Pius XII was a modernist who spoke the language of modernists.
    .
    Why would a Modernist canonize as a saint his own predecessor who defined and condemned Modernism?
    .
    You're arguing against yourself -- you don't need any help.
    .
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #71 on: October 23, 2017, 03:48:15 PM »
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  • Perhaps the worst effect of sedevacantism is that it deprives the current pope from prayers of Catholics. That many more Masses are said without mention of prayers for the Holy Father (because of the "una cuм" dissension).
    Thus spaketh "Nil Obstat"
    Credibility zero. 
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #72 on: October 23, 2017, 04:03:43 PM »
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  • .
    I find your denouncement of Pope Pius XII interesting. I don't agree with your conclusions, however.
    .
    If Pius XII was not really a pope then his solemn definition of Our Lady's Assumption in 1950 was allowed by God to take place even though it would have been a deception for the whole world. All the saints canonized by Pius XII would have been for the deception of the world and some or even all of them were not really saints at all. This would include the canonizations of not only Pope St. Pius X, for example, but also St. Catherine Laboure, St. Gemma Galgani, St. Louis Grignion de Montfort, St. Maria Goretti and St. Anthony Mary Claret, among many others.
    .

    However, I find it interesting what you have done by carrying the criticism of the many shortcomings of Pius XII to the apparently logical extreme of condemning his whole pontificate (against all reason, it seems to me) because this is something that the CMRI fails to do. You are doing what I should expect of the CMRI, since they condemn John XXIII and all his successors on the same grounds, but they refuse to carry that same denouncement to the papacy of Pius XII.
    .
    In fact, when questioned about these failures of Pius XII, CMRI priests get visibly upset. They don't like such questions. They act like these are personal insults or something like that.
    .
    Perhaps CMRI feels as your bolded above, Pope Pius XII knew the enemy was not only at the door but inside and he may have been influenced by them, is it any wonder.  He was a pope fighting for the Church.
    Also those who do not understand how anyone can make a "judgment", is it any wonder ALSO, when you see Francis and his beliefs.  See this article for just one example:
    Pope Francis and  NIHILISM 

    Does Pope Francis believe that there is no "possibility of an objective basis for truth" and that there is no objective meaning or reality? (Dictionary.com definitions of nihilism)

    The nihilist Michel de Certeau believed in all of the above.

    In simple words, de Certeau's theology denies objective truth.

    The present Pope considers him the most eminent modern theologian. Francis said:

    "For me, de Certeau is still the greatest theologian for today." (onepeterfive.com, March 8, 2016, "Pope Francis Reveals His Mind to Private Audience")

    De Certeau in his greatest book "Heterologies" said:

    "It is not Mr. Foucault who is making fun of domains of knowledge... It is history that is laughing at them. It plays tricks on the teleologists who take themselves to be the lieutenants of meaning. A meaninglessness of history." ("Heterologogies," Pages 195-196)

    Historian Keith Windschuttle shows that the Pope's favorite modern theologian is a radical who thinks that there is no outside reality. Windschuttle wrote:

    "Of all the French theorists... de Certeau is the most radical. He is critical of the poststructuralist Foucault for his use of docuмentary evidence and of Derrida for the way he privileges the practice of writing. For de Certeau, writing is a form of oppression... he argues... writing itself constitutes the act of colonisation..."

    "Like both structuralist and poststructuralist theorists, de Certeau subscribes to the thesis that we have access only to our language and not to any real, outside world..."

    "De Certeau claims that writing can never be objective. Its status is no different from that of fiction. So, because history is a form of writing, all history is also fiction." ("The Killing of History," Pages 31-34)

    By Francis's greatest modern theologian's logic then Jesus Christ, true God and true man, who walked the earth during the reign of Pontius Pilate is fiction.

    The central doctrine of Catholism, the Incarnation, is fiction.

    Post Structuralists like de Certeau, more widely known as Postmodernists, believe all reality is fiction or "narrative."


    They change the "narrative" or story usually to compile with their leftist or liberal views on politics, sɛҳuąƖ morality or whatever their pet project happens to be.

    They rarely use scholarship to backup their "narrative" point of view, only mind numbing long confusing writing that obscures instead of clarifying.

    The Postmodernists in the media are one exception to the obscurantism of non-clarity.

    Their "narratives" are clear and well written, but again rarely is there scholarship or strong evidence to backup their stories. They use spin to obscure.

    Media spin "narrative" is "news and information that is manipulated or slanted to affect its interpretation and influence public opinion." (Dictionary.com)

    They usually use their "narratives" in history, news, the Bible and any writing as a vehicle to promote their ideological ideas.

    With that background, here is the Pope's favorite theologian's central religious ideas. The de Certeau Scholar Johannes Hoff wrote:

    "According to this new approach to the Biblical narrative, the focal event of Christianity is not the incarnation, the crucifixion, or the resurrection of Christ, but the empty tomb. The Christian form of life is no longer associated with a place, a body, or an institution, but with a quest for a missing body: the missing body of the people of Israel, and mutatis mutandis the missing body of Jesus."
    (Article by Johannes Hoff, "Mysticism, Ecclesiology And The Body Christ: Certeau's (Mis-) Reading of Corpus Mystium and the Legacy of Henri de Lubac" Page 87, Titus Brandsma Institute Studies In Spirituality, Supplement 24, "Spiritual Spaces: History and Mysticism in Michel De Certeau")

    The nihilist theologian believes that the central truths of Christianity are about "absence" or nonexistence. De Certeau scholar Graham Ward wrote:

    "For de Lubac the... Eucharist is not a sign of the presence of Christ's body, it is Christ's body... And yet Certeau... makes the Eucharist (as later the church and body of mystical text he treats) into substitutes, acts of bereavement, signs of absence." ("Michel de Certeau - in the Plural, " Page 511)

    In other words, Francis's greatest modern theologian believes that the Eucharist is not the body of Christ present, he doesn't even believe it is a sign of the presence of Christ's body like some Protestants, but a sign of "absence."

    Might de Certeau's influence on Francis be the reason he never kneels before the Eucharist, but kneels to wash the feet of those he like Certeau might consider oppressed?

    De Certeau's influence on Francis may be the reason he reportedly said:

    "It is not excluded that I will enter history as the one who split the Catholic Church." (Der Spiegel magazine, December, 23, 2016)

    De Certeau scholar Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt wrote:

    "Certeau... came increasingly to stress the clash of interpretation, the "law of conflict," that applies even to the church. Under the pressure of this clash, the ecclesial/eucharistic body is "shattered." ("Michael de Certeau - in the Plural", Page 359)

    Francis's greatest modern theologian doesn't believe in the central truths of the Catholic Church.

    The Pope's most eminent modern theologian doesn't even believe in objective truth.

    Does Francis believe in the central doctrines of the Catholic Church or in objective truth?

    The question needs to be asked:

    If the Pope is a disciple of de Certeau and Postmodernism, then what ultimately do he and these thinkers believe in?

    Philosopher Stephen Hicks said:

    The "Left thinkers of the 1950s and 1960s... Confronted by the continued poverty and brutality of socialism, they could either go with the evidence and reject their most cherish ideals - or stick by their ideals and attack the whole idea that evidence and logic matter..."

    "Postmodernism is born of the marriage of Left politics and skeptical epistemology..."

    "Then, strikingly, postmodernism turns out not to be relativistic at all. Relativism becomes part of a rhetorical political strategy, some Machiavellian realpolitik employed to throw the opposition off track..."

    "Here it is useful to recall Derrida: 'deconstruction never had any meaning... than as a radicalization... within the tradition of a certain Marxism, in a certain spirit of Marxism.'" ("Explaining Postmodernism," Page 90, 186)

    For Postmodernists like de Certeau, Derrida, Foucault and it appears Francis, if he is their disciple, falsehood or truth doesn't matter.

    The only thing that matters is achieving power for their liberal ideology or group.

    Instead of economic Marxism, the post-modernist in the 1970's focused on what de Certeau and other post-modernists termed "oppression" of groups.

    Power not truth for groups such as women, gαys, transexauls, workers and any sub-category of minorities was the new goal to achieving control.

    An example is abortion: women had to have power over their bodies so the truth that the unborn baby is human must be denied and politically incorrect.

    Another example is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts: gαys had to have power over their bodies so the truth that is was a sin and lead to disease and an early death had to be denied and politically incorrect.

    Remember that liberals, who never use Marxist words, are nothing but post-modernist who use words like equality and compassion as masks for raw power.

    Venezuela is another example.

    The liberals from Fr. James Martin to Pope Francis will not lift a finger or say a word to stop the Venezuelan people from being starved and brutalized because the country's dictator is part of their liberal group.



    The liberals means to achieve power in the Church is praxis theology.

    Internationally renowned theologian Dr. Tracey Rowland said Francis's "decision - making process" outlined in Evangelii Gaudium is "the tendency to give priority to praxis over theory."

    She states that chapter eight of Amoris Laetitia "might be described as the praxis chapter rather than a theory chapter." Theory meaning Catholic doctrine.

    The renowned theologian asks how footnote 351 of Amoris Laetitia "can be consistent with paragraph eighty-four of John Paul II's Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris consortio and paragraph twenty-nine of Benedict XVI's Apostolic Exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis? A pastoral crisis may arise if the lay faithful and their priests have to choose between... two Popes (John Paul II and Benedict XVI) on one side, and a third Pope (Pope Francis) on the other." ("Catholic Theology," Page 192, 198, 199)

    The choice appears to be between the infallible doctrines of the Catholic Church or praxis theology.

    Rowland says "praxis types agree in rejecting classical metaphysics." She then explains praxis ideology or "theology":

    "Doctrinal theory is at best extrinsic and secondary. The reflex character of theory-praxis tends toward a reduction of theory to reflection on praxis as variously understood. The normativity tends toward an identification of Christianity with modern, secular (liberal or Marxist) process." ("Catholic Theology," Page174)

    If what the internationally renowned theologian is saying is true of Pope Francis and praxis "theology," then the Church is in the greatest crisis in history.

    The Church has a Pope who has betrayed Jesus Christ and His Gospel for the world.

    It appears that Francis has exchanged the Gospel of Jesus Christ for "secular (liberal or Marxist)" ideology which denies objective truth.

    Pray for the Church, the beloved bride of Jesus Christ."













    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #73 on: October 23, 2017, 04:07:28 PM »
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  • .
    Why would a Modernist canonize as a saint his own predecessor who defined and condemned Modernism?
    .
    You're arguing against yourself -- you don't need any help.
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    Modernists, as well as communists, cleverly do the duck walk.
    While men such as Pius XII may appear to be traditionalists by supporting and even canonizing good men, such as St. Pius X, they also appoint key modernists to high positions. Patience is their game plan as they slowly increment the grand scheme. Pius XII did exactly that by positioning key modernists and even freemasons as bishops, cardinals, and Vatican bureaucrats who would ultimately vote for his successors, John XXIII and Paul VI, destroy the sacredness of the Mass, and tear down the church.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: I am considering sedevacantism
    « Reply #74 on: October 23, 2017, 09:10:32 PM »
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  • If Our Lady refers to Pope Pius XII as "Pope", then I go with that.  Our Lady asked Sr. Lucia to ask Pius XII to consecrate Russia, and more than once.

    Question is, as we know, Pope Pius XII was a disappointment and that is putting it nicely, I think.  I often wonder, in my opinion, is there Pontius Pilate a prefigure of Pope Pius XII.  Christ says to Pontius Pilate," You have the authority to release me or crucify me."  At the end of the day, scriptures say Pontius Pilate made friends with his enemy.  In my opinion, Pius XI and Pius XII were with some modernism and weaknesses.