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Author Topic: I'm not gettting answers...  (Read 701 times)

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Offline xavierpope

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I'm not gettting answers...
« on: August 03, 2021, 03:00:03 PM »
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  • First of all , I would like to apologize for any end time questions .

    I just have no idea what is the Catholic position on end times.

    Does Jesus come back in secret?
    When is it too late?
    At what point does judgment start?
    Is there a rapture? 

    Please help, it's really troubling me. 


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #1 on: August 03, 2021, 03:26:04 PM »
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  • A good book on the end times, which consolidates all the Church Fathers + Scripture + Prophecies is called
    "Trial, Tribulation + Triumph - Before, During and After the antichrist"
    by Desmond Birch.
    .
    The author is not a Traditional Catholic, so he doesn't connect Vatican 2 with many prophecies who mention a "spiritual chastisement" (which is related to our times, which are separate from the time of the antichrist, in the future).
    .
    But the author does a fantastic job of explaining which "predictions" are
    1.  of the faith (i.e. in Scripture + all Church Fathers agree)...these events will definitely happen 100%, and which things are
    .
    2.  "probable" (i.e. most Church Fathers agree, but not all...and you can kinda see them in scripture but it's not 100% clear)...generally they will happen but not sure to what degree... and which things are
    .
    3.  strictly "prophecy" (details of the future which aren't in Scripture and aren't mentioned by the Church Fathers...but are mentioned multiple times in many prophecies and so have *some* weight, but can be believed or not (i.e. optional).  This would include many apparitions and prophecies of the saints which God gives to the Church for more details and for hope, but which may not come to pass because the future is not set in stone and God can give or take away His mercy depending on our prayers and penances.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #2 on: August 03, 2021, 03:29:35 PM »
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  • If you want to read a bunch of prophecies on our times (i.e. the near future), which in my opinion, does not concern the anti-christ but simply times which are anti-church and anti-God, then you can read the following book FREE online:
    .
    https://archive.org/details/CatholicProphecy
    .
    Catholic Prophecy - the Coming Chastisement
    by Yves Dupont
    .
    I don't know how old you are, but I don't think the anti-christ will appear for a good many decades (50-60 years at least).  The Church will be resurrected before this happens, peace and order will return to society, and Our Lady's triumph will happen before anti-christ comes onto the scene.  Prepare yourself for the next 10 years which will be very turbulent.  The evils of the day are sufficient to worry and prepare for.  The anti-christ times are a distant concern.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #3 on: August 03, 2021, 03:34:15 PM »
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  • Try searching "Seven Ages of the Church".

    It's fairly well accepted by trads that we're at the end of the 5th Age.  Bp. Williamson calls this end time,  "a dress rehearsal for the 7th Age".

    Many Catholic prophecies on an unprecedented, blow-out Chastisement, manifested by WWIII and the Three Days of Darkness,
    followed by a Sixth Age of Peace.

    Our Lady of La Salette, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Good Success, Our Lady of Akita, Yves Dupont, Alois Irlmaier, Marie Julie Jahenny are good sources of information. 

    The Akita apparition is heavily debated because it came post VII, but the dire message to Asia is that of Fatima.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #4 on: August 03, 2021, 03:43:50 PM »
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  • Great info, Incredulous!  There's so much to read.


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #5 on: August 03, 2021, 05:25:04 PM »
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  • First of all , I would like to apologize for any end time questions .

    I just have no idea what is the Catholic position on end times.

    Does Jesus come back in secret?
    When is it too late?
    At what point does judgment start?
    Is there a rapture?

    Please help, it's really troubling me.
    Does Jesus come back in secret?  No.  Jesus will return just as he departed.  See Acts 1:9-11.

    When is it too late?  When is what too late?  It will be too late to repent when you go to your particular judgment upon your death.

    At what point does judgment start?  Each person is judged upon his death.  This is called the particular judgment.  The General Judgment starts upon the return of Christ and will show the justice and mercy of God for all to see.

    Is there a rapture?  No.  The very concept of the rapture was invented in the late 1700s or early 1800s by Evangelical Protestants.  The false doctrine was not widely popularized until the 1970s when Hal Lindsey published The Late Great Planet Earth, though it was known by many before then.  You'll find very little Catholic writings concerning the rapture because no one even proposed it until so recently and even then the heresy began in the United States and wasn't taken seriously by Catholics or even most Protestants until the last 50 years or so.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 11:47:52 PM »
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  • First of all , I would like to apologize for any end time questions .

    I just have no idea what is the Catholic position on end times.

    Your other post contained ZERO questions, just a stream of false statements offered as if you know notably more than you actually do.

    When is it too late FOR WHAT?

    How old are you?

    Why not focus your energy on learning the basics of Catholic doctrine, leaving the deeper question until later?

    Forget about prophecy, etc -- study the basics FIRST.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 11:50:27 PM »
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  • Great info, Incredulous!  There's so much to read.
    While the info is great, I seriously doubt this kid needs to bother with any of it, at least not right now.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline JOANORCM

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #8 on: August 04, 2021, 02:02:11 AM »
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  • Great info, Incredulous!  There's so much to read.
    Get THE END OF THE PRESENT WORLD by Fr Charles Arminjon. He wrote it in the 1800s.
    2 Thessalonians 2

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #9 on: August 04, 2021, 02:24:43 AM »
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  • Does Jesus come back in secret?  No.  Jesus will return just as he departed.  See Acts 1:9-11.

    When is it too late?  When is what too late?  It will be too late to repent when you go to your particular judgment upon your death.

    At what point does judgment start?  Each person is judged upon his death.  This is called the particular judgment.  The General Judgment starts upon the return of Christ and will show the justice and mercy of God for all to see.

    Is there a rapture?  No.  The very concept of the rapture was invented in the late 1700s or early 1800s by Evangelical Protestants.  The false doctrine was not widely popularized until the 1970s when Hal Lindsey published The Late Great Planet Earth, though it was known by many before then.  You'll find very little Catholic writings concerning the rapture because no one even proposed it until so recently and even then the heresy began in the United States and wasn't taken seriously by Catholics or even most Protestants until the last 50 years or so.
    /Thread. As a side note OP, I wouldn't obsess over the end times, private revelations, looking for signs of the end etc. Focus on how much you can love God instead of worrying about when it will be too late.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #10 on: August 04, 2021, 02:56:07 AM »
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  • First of all , I would like to apologize for any end time questions .

    I just have no idea what is the Catholic position on end times.

    Does Jesus come back in secret?
    When is it too late?
    At what point does judgment start?
    Is there a rapture?

    Please help, it's really troubling me.
    Despite the sincerely held positions of posters here, which I won't try to debate, the Church (yes, the Traditional Church) does not have an official Catholic position regarding the unfolding of End Times.  She does not wish the faithful to dwell on the future because neither does her Founder.  Our Lord Jesus Christ tells us to dwell in the present, which is only where God is, relative to each person's soul and spiritual reality.  Neither the past nor the future can an individual Catholic do anything about, even though -- like others-- I am equally curious and would definitely like to know time periods.

    As you can see, opinions vary, being that they are based not on dogma but on private revelation.  The Four Last Things we know for certain -- just not their timing.  We also do not know the starting point for End Times nor its sequence, length, or other details.  Even following private revelation, we know only generalities.  Chastisements can be many and varied.  A trad priest I know believes that "Covid" is the first in what he says will be a sequence of increasingly more difficult chastisements. His, also, is an opinion, like the opinions of other clergy.
    With deference to other posters, I nevertheless tend to agree with the trad priest I just mentioned. I know several other priests who think the same.  Private revelation is open to a many explanations because, again, general statements were made by Our Lady, some of which invite widely different interpretations. I also know several lay people who share my view, but I think we are in the minority.

    If End Times means WWIII and/or famine and/or persecution of Catholics, I probably don't want to be around for it, and that would make be biased toward this being the 5th Age and would release me from living through End Times.  OTOH, if the rest of our lives are going to be Covid obsessed , slaves to political (not medical) obsessions and medical ignorance, combined with restrictions on the True Mass and on trad priests to administer true sacraments, then I can't wait for it to be over and hope this is the last age.

    No, there is no rapture. Priests both trad and N.O. have confirmed that. It's neither a dogma of the true Church nor the fake church.

    You should know better than to even ask the question, Does Jesus return in secret?  His coming will be spectacular-- a celestial form of Shock and Awe.  The Son of God is not secretive but shows Himself plainly because He is truth.  People who lie hide.  The King of the Universe would contradict His very essence to assume secrecy.  

    What do you mean "too late"?  If you're talking about individual souls, there is a maximum number of times God will forgive, but that only applies to the unrepentant sinner whose confessions are lukewarm and who lacks purpose of amendment. Souls that habitually sin without taking advantage of God's generous sacramental and actual graces will be tolerated in their sin only so long until God will tolerate their cynical pretenses at sorrow no longer. 

    I actually do believe that there will be an Illumination of Conscience offered to the whole world.

    If you are asking instead, "too late" for a momentum toward the End Times to stop or pause, then you're asking the wrong question.  God is in control in that the divine plan will not be sabotaged or limited by human beings. However, the Church does teach that chastisements can be restrained or withheld by God by virtue of the prayers, sacrifices, and penances of her members. This is scripturally based.  So, we don't control the sequence, but we may have some effect on the severity.

    I do think these are very troubling times.  So do many priests.

    You're not getting answers to your questions because the answers remain unknown.  Some people are more confident in their educated guesses than others of us are.


    Offline Marion

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #11 on: August 04, 2021, 03:07:27 AM »
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  • Despite the sincerely held positions of posters here, which I won't try to debate, the Church (yes, the Traditional Church) does not have an official Catholic position regarding the unfolding of End Times.  She does not wish the faithful to dwell on the future because neither does her Founder.  Our Lord Jesus Christ tells us to dwell in the present, which is only where God is, relative to each person's soul and spiritual reality.  Neither the past nor the future can an individual Catholic do anything about, even though -- like others-- I am equally curious and would definitely like to know time periods.

    [...]

    If End Times means WWIII and/or famine and/or persecution of Catholics, I probably don't want to be around for it, [...]


    You seem to be completely excluding the case that the End Times might be unfolding right before our eyes.

    And this, although many talk about a big crisis of the Church, some about the biggest crisis ever.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #12 on: August 04, 2021, 03:09:39 AM »
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  • You seem to completely exclude the case that the End Times might be unfolding right before our eyes.

    And this, although many talk about a big crisis of the Church, some about the biggest crisis ever.
    No, no!  I think it is indeed unfolding before our eyes.  It's just that Incredulous and some others here disagree with that, based on their own study and interpretation.  I was merely ceding to other possibilities.  Gut-wise, this absolutely feels like End Times to me.

    Offline Marion

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #13 on: August 04, 2021, 03:32:12 AM »
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  • @MMagdala

    I see.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Username

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    Re: I'm not gettting answers...
    « Reply #14 on: August 04, 2021, 06:48:20 AM »
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  • The answer you need, which is not what your itching ears long to hear is this: study the Catechism, and talk to a Traditional Catholic Priest.  The Catechism of St Pius X is a good, easy place to start.  Mortify your curiosity, read the Catechism page by page without skipping ahead to points of interest, and stop seeking answers on an internet forum full of varying opinions.  Continuing to do so is very risky!  TAKE INSTRUCTION FROM A TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC PRIEST!