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Author Topic: Hypothesis of Mary Ball Martinez  (Read 4563 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Hypothesis of Mary Ball Martinez
« on: September 15, 2008, 12:23:01 AM »
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  • Having read most of this book; it seems to be the conception of Mrs Martinez that the rot in the Church set in upon Greg XVI borrowing money from Rothschild with the help of a non-clerical Pacelli ancestor who was a Rothschild partner-- from which comes  the allegation that Pacelli was a judaic.

     It probably is true that Pius IX also borrowed money from Rothschild once and retained Pacelli as an advisor but I believe this association ends as early as 1848 when the Pope had enough of the Revolution. It seems as if the Rothschild loan was never repaid as the Pope most likely saw the loss of his Papal State as justification for stiffing his creditor. The King of Rev Italy later offered to pay off the loan if the Pope would come to terms with the Rev but Pius refused.

     As for post 1848, I have never seen any evidence of a Rothschild association with the Papacy-- at least through Pius X( not that I know of anything specific after that). It has to be remembered that after the loss of the Papal States, the Popes expenses were vastly reduced: so there is no corruption coming from that quarter( this is not the place to get into a discussion on the pros and cons of the temporal jurisdiction).It is most likey that as Rothschild controlled virtually all the money in post revolutionary Europe, Greg XVI was forced into doing business with the banker.

    It seems as if the frame Rampolla operation actually had it's origin in a frame Ferreti attempt. Acc to Mrs M, it was none other than Austria who tried to prevent Pius IX from becoming Pope by claiming that there are 'numerous docuмents' that show him to be a mason. Only one docuмent is specifically mentioned; it claims initiation into a specific Lodge but like the Card Rampolla 'OTO Manifesto" it would have to be a fraud of some sort.

    Next Eugenio Pacelli is accepted into the priesthood under Leo XIII and put under the Supervision of Card Rampolla. And so Pacelli and Della Chiesa are  associated with the Card.

    It is not brought out that for the last 23 or so yrs of Card Rampolla's life his contacts with Della Chiesa are few and far between. As has been shown in the past, in truth Card Rampolla belionged to the Zelanti of Card Raphael and Pius X.  As for Pacelli, acc to author Francis Sugrue, Pacelli 'was not of the party of Rampolla'.

    Acc to Mrs Martinez Pius X made Card Rampolla head of INQ in addition to his posts of arch-priest  Vatican Cathedral and chm of Pontifical Commission on Biblical Studies. We are asked to believe this man is ' a secret occult mason in the OTO' --this is laughable.

    I do not believe Mrs Martinez to be disingenuous however her Bibliography( while interesting) lacks any of the numerous sources I have posted in the past and therefore her research is incomplete in this area.

    My overall conclusions still stands-- 1)while corruption begins during the pontificate of Ben 15, there is no connection with the philosophy or policy of Card Rampolla and 2)Rothschild was unassociated with the Church after 1848







    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    Hypothesis of Mary Ball Martinez
    « Reply #1 on: September 18, 2008, 12:19:34 AM »
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  • Undermining Of The Catholic Church: after finishing the book, I came away finding it hard to call Pius XII(12?) a Pope-- as a historian I will leave his theological transgressions in the hands of those adapted to such other than myself.

      Mrs Ball- Martinez describes Pacelli as concluding a concordat with Germany and Italy and then being partial to the Allies(Communists) when the war starts. It is of course true that Mussolini and Hitler violated those agreements however it also seems as if many who were forced to go to war against Communists accused the Pope of being a traitor. What few moves against communism he makes after 10 yrs, the author sees as an attempt (however late) to make up for his past.  Pacelli was also a major cog in settling judaics in the anti-christ, illegal Israeli state. Talk about some violations of articles of faith!!!!

     If Pius was really repentant for his sellout of Catholic Europe( which curiously seems to have been consolidated under the straw men Il Duce and der Fuheror by the diplomacy of Pacelli himself) then he probably  deserves to be called Pope.

    Although I disagree with the author as to when the current apostacy begins , the book is very interesting  to read. What her theme seems to be is finding the origin in the Rothschild loan taken by Greg XVI. As stated above, the Pope must have had no other choice. And I highly doubt the 2 yr old future Pope was present at the deathbed of Pius IX where he heard the Pope tell his father to make the child a priest. The author gives no specific source for this and a few other flights of fancy.

    Protestants are fond of saying the Vatican bank has been under Rothschild control from about this point but I have never seen any evidence besides  the very early loan that Pius IX took before his conditional amnesty to the Revolutionaries was violated. At about that point the Alta Vendita is found and everything is made manifest.

    Again I would recommend to this Forum that even though he is a judaic, two of D. Kertzer's books are most valuable--1) Popes Against The Judaics and 2)Prisoner Of The Vatican.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    Hypothesis of Mary Ball Martinez
    « Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 11:59:29 PM »
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  • Acc to Mrs M herself, the Rothschild loan( set up by Pacelli sr)  was to 'the Papal States' which is a Temporal operation and does not reflect on the Church itself. This is probably why the Pope felt justified on stiffing Rothschild out of the loan when the Rev cost him the Papal States.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'