Author Topic: How widespread is the Sede position (Read 2033 times)

Marlelar · « **on:** October 20, 2013, 12:49:48 AM »

...outside of North America? I'm curious if it is a hot topic in South America, Europe, and Asia as it is here. Are there groups like the CMRI et al in other countries? I've seen the list of affiliates on the CMRI website but it does not say if those are well established chapels or locations that are visited only occasionally.
Are there sede groups unique to other countries?

Marsha

soulguard · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2013, 07:22:20 AM »

There used to be a website "Tridentinerite.org" that was for a group of Sedevacantist priests in the UK (kent). It did not have much information on it and had a bizarre proposal to build a protestant style "mega church" in London. The site is now taken down, but is original purpose still shows up when you do a search for "sedevacantist church".

I also listened to a debate between CMRI (Fr Cekada) and SSPV ( I forget his name) in which was said that Archbishop Thuc consecrated "hundreds of bishops". Perhaps there are lots of people going round claiming to be Catholic priests and bishops, and they can be found anywhere.

I also want information on Sedevacantist groups, if they happen to have any sede monastic orders anywhere (in English speaking countries). Sedes just don't seem to be tied to particular groups for one reason or another.

Mabel · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2013, 10:37:06 AM »

Many international "sedes" go to SSPX. The only continent where I personally do not know anyone who holds that position is probably Asia. I also don't know any Asians. Make what you will of that.

Remember the US has the most traditional masses in the world, we also have more freedom to be open about our beliefs here. I know Catholics in other countries do not enjoy the same. There are so many stories of families and priests who kept the faith here, who were some of the first to recognize the state of sede vacante in the 70s. I'd probably attribute that to communications being more developed here than in other parts of the world and a reliable mail service, as that is how early tradionalists communicated and spread news.

Marlelar · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2013, 03:29:29 PM »

I did not know that the US had the most traditional Masses, I assumed Europe as a whole, had more. It's odd to think that a country which has never been Catholic actually takes the lead in preserving the old ways.

Marsha

John · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2013, 03:47:14 PM »

Interestingly, as Europe brought the Church to the Americas, through priests affiliated with CMRI, America is bringing the Church to Europe.

Also, Bishop Pivarunas has had another recent trip to Mexico for Confirmation, etc. He relates stories of towns in Mexico which have almost exclusively the Latin rite and reports of a Novus Ordo "priest" celebrating "mass" in a private home! ... maybe once per month!!!

Mabel · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2013, 05:01:51 PM »

It isn't that hard to get to a Sunday mass in the US said by CMRI, independent or Lefebrve line priest. A few rare places actually have old priests that were ordained in the old rite, before '72. Even the FSSP has some priests through the line of Abp. Lefebrve.

The people I know who can't get to mass in the US are usually very rural. Those I know who cannot get to mass in Europe tend to live in large cities. Not every European country has the traditional mass, either. If they do, it might not even be on a permanent or regular basis. From my observations most countries tend to have one good option, as in one strong, well-run mass center, for traditional mass within their borders, if they have it at all. There are exceptions.

I don't tend to count places where the so called "extraordinary form" is preformed. We all know those situations are temporary or just a stop gap to appease people, at best. If one did count those situations I still think the US would have the most.

There was serious tension between the US clergy and the progressive European clergy at the time of the V2. We had some real heroes here. I know the US gets painted as liberal, but Europe fell first.

2Vermont · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2013, 06:34:59 AM »

Quote from: Mabel

It isn't that hard to get to a Sunday mass in the US said by CMRI, independent or Lefebrve line priest. A few rare places actually have old priests that were ordained in the old rite, before '72. Even the FSSP has some priests through the line of Abp. Lefebrve.

The people I know who can't get to mass in the US are usually very rural. Those I know who cannot get to mass in Europe tend to live in large cities. Not every European country has the traditional mass, either. If they do, it might not even be on a permanent or regular basis. From my observations most countries tend to have one good option, as in one strong, well-run mass center, for traditional mass within their borders, if they have it at all. There are exceptions.

I don't tend to count places where the so called "extraordinary form" is preformed. We all know those situations are temporary or just a stop gap to appease people, at best. If one did count those situations I still think the US would have the most.

There was serious tension between the US clergy and the progressive European clergy at the time of the V2. We had some real heroes here. I know the US gets painted as liberal, but Europe fell first.

Just wanted to add that there are certain states that have no access to mass. You can see which ones by checking out the directory of Latin Masses at traditio.com

In my case I had to travel 4 hours yesterday to another state.

IllyricumSacrum · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2013, 07:23:47 AM »

Don't forget the churches of the Holy Unia, especially when a valid TLM is not an option.

soulguard · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2013, 10:39:07 AM »

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum

Don't forget the churches of the Holy Unia, especially when a valid TLM is not an option.

What is the church of the Holy Unia??

Mabel · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2013, 10:49:16 AM »

Quote from: soulguard

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum
Don't forget the churches of the Holy Unia, especially when a valid TLM is not an option.

What is the church of the Holy Unia??

Eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

I've had trouble with the ones in my area but it is a great option for others.

Mabel · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2013, 11:08:31 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Mabel
It isn't that hard to get to a Sunday mass in the US said by CMRI, independent or Lefebrve line priest. A few rare places actually have old priests that were ordained in the old rite, before '72. Even the FSSP has some priests through the line of Abp. Lefebrve.

The people I know who can't get to mass in the US are usually very rural. Those I know who cannot get to mass in Europe tend to live in large cities. Not every European country has the traditional mass, either. If they do, it might not even be on a permanent or regular basis. From my observations most countries tend to have one good option, as in one strong, well-run mass center, for traditional mass within their borders, if they have it at all. There are exceptions.

I don't tend to count places where the so called "extraordinary form" is preformed. We all know those situations are temporary or just a stop gap to appease people, at best. If one did count those situations I still think the US would have the most.

There was serious tension between the US clergy and the progressive European clergy at the time of the V2. We had some real heroes here. I know the US gets painted as liberal, but Europe fell first.

Just wanted to add that there are certain states that have no access to mass. You can see which ones by checking out the directory of Latin Masses at traditio.com

In my case I had to travel 4 hours yesterday to another state.

We had to drive three hours or go to mass when we were on vacation at one point in our lives. Although we were living near two masses and they were good options at one point, the situations changed. It took quite a long time and a lot of effort but a new mass center was established.

Even so, the whole situation is volatile. It can change tomorrow, that goes for any group or individual situation.

IllyricumSacrum · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2013, 04:43:32 PM »

Quote from: Mabel

Quote from: soulguard
Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum
Don't forget the churches of the Holy Unia, especially when a valid TLM is not an option.

What is the church of the Holy Unia??

Eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

I've had trouble with the ones in my area but it is a great option for others.

They can be a mixed bag (esp. some of the Ruthenians and a lot of the Melkites) but the Ukrainians seem to have their act together. One liberal seminarian from another eparchy described the Ukrainian eparchies as vestiges of "bad 1950s American Catholicism." He meant it as an insult. I took it as a back-handed compliment.
At least the Eastern Churches are a source for sacraments. Little question of their validity.

Mabel · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2013, 06:26:16 PM »

Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum

Quote from: Mabel
Quote from: soulguard
Quote from: IllyricuмSacrum
Don't forget the churches of the Holy Unia, especially when a valid TLM is not an option.

What is the church of the Holy Unia??

Eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

I've had trouble with the ones in my area but it is a great option for others.

They can be a mixed bag (esp. some of the Ruthenians and a lot of the Melkites) but the Ukrainians seem to have their act together. One liberal seminarian from another eparchy described the Ukrainian eparchies as vestiges of "bad 1950s American Catholicism." He meant it as an insult. I took it as a back-handed compliment.
At least the Eastern Churches are a source for sacraments. Little question of their validity.

I dearly wish we had a good Ukranian rite nearby. It is my favorite Eastern rite.

GregorianChat · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2013, 11:47:26 AM »

http://vkpatriarhat.org.ua/en/?category_name=excommunications-and-anathemas
This is a link to a Byzantine SV group in Ukraine.

s2srea · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2013, 11:56:04 AM »

Quote from: GregorianChat

http://vkpatriarhat.org.ua/en/?category_name=excommunications-and-anathemas
This is a link to a Byzantine SV group in Ukraine.

Its a dangerous group. Please stay away from them. The 'patriarch' is trying to set himself up as a sort of pope of the traditionalists.