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Author Topic: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?  (Read 1514 times)

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Online Giovanni Berto

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How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
« on: September 20, 2020, 04:37:39 PM »
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    • We have this new priest in the priory who comes from the novus ordo.
    He was in the SSPX seminary for less than a year and now is installed permanently in the priory.
    As far as I know, he was not conditionally ordained. I've sent some e-mails under a pseudonym and I have not received an answer. I can only assume that the answer is negative, as it seems to be the norm in the SSPX these days. He was saying mass in another priory even before he went to the seminary.

    I am looking for advice on how to deal with this.

    I read that we cannot receive doubtful sacraments. Do you have a good source on this? Would it be a mortal sin to receive sacraments from this priest?

    I cannot convince myself just to go along, since I believe that the new ordination rites are, at best, doubtful.

    Since the consecrated hosts are always mixed in the tabernacle, we can never be sure again if we are receiving the Eucharist, as he could be just layman. So it means that we can no longer receive communion. Confession with him is also obviously out of the question.

    Am I being too much of a "hard liner" here? It seems to me that we have reached a brick wall.

    Apparently, we have two classes of priests in the SSPX now: the traditional and the doubtful ones. All because Bp. Fellay wanted to please Pope Benedict XVI. :facepalm:
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #1 on: September 20, 2020, 04:58:29 PM »
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    • I went to the SSPX chapel today and they’ll be taking up a collection for the SSPX Novus Ordo refugee re-education camp (my term).  I won’t give to that because I doubt that will include conditional ordination.  Hey, that’s the easy path.  Get an NO ordination (easy) and then a 6-week crash course boot camp and you’re done.  I’m sure they’d do a conditional if you asked for it.
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #2 on: September 20, 2020, 05:00:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 20, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
    I’m sure they’d do a conditional if you asked for it.

    It is hearsay, but I heard of a case where one of these priests asked to be conditionally ordained but the request was refused by the SSPX.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #3 on: September 20, 2020, 05:09:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matto on September 20, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
    It is hearsay, but I heard of a case where one of these priests asked to be conditionally ordained but the request was refused by the SSPX.

    Well, if that's the case, we're quickly approaching red-light territory for the SSPX.  You certainly can't receive Sacraments at a chapel unless you know who's been there recently.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #4 on: September 20, 2020, 05:32:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 20, 2020, 05:09:07 PM
    Well, if that's the case, we're quickly approaching red-light territory for the SSPX.  You certainly can't receive Sacraments at a chapel unless you know who's been there recently.

    ... assuming of course that you consider the New Rite of ordination to be doubtful.
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    Online Giovanni Berto

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #5 on: September 20, 2020, 06:15:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 20, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
    I’m sure they’d do a conditional if you asked for it.
    I am sorry, but this sounds like a joke to me.
    We are in South America, I won't say which country to protect the innocent (and the guilty).
    We have people very close to Menzingen running the show here.
    I have used a psedonym to send the e-mail asking about the conditional ordination because I know that nobody is allowed to ask questions here.

    I can only imagine that in the US it is very different. Americans are more inquiring, and so the superiors are better prepared to deal with this kind of thing. Here people are more trusting. If you ask questions, it is because you don't trust the superiors. If you don't the superiors, you are the Devil and you must be sent to Hell. That is how I feel anyway.

    I think that we are indeed in "red-light territory". How can I know if the hosts are really consecrated, since the "half-priest" lives in the chapel and says mass there everyday?

    It's only a matter of time until a second class "priest" comes to your town.
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #6 on: September 20, 2020, 06:27:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on September 20, 2020, 06:15:11 PM
    It's only a matter of time until a second class "priest" comes to your town.

    There are, or were last I checked, two such Novus Ordo ordained priests in the Ridgefield priory which serves the mission where I used to go to Mass. (hopefully will again but currently there are no Masses because of the corona hoax). I don't think their ordinations are invalid, but there are sedes here who refuse to go to Mass when one of those priests says Mass. It has caused problems, even for non-sedes, and it is one reason why many people stopped going to Ridgefield for Mass and switched to the quasi-secret chapel where Bishop Zendejas supposedly says Mass.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #7 on: September 20, 2020, 08:50:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 20, 2020, 05:09:07 PM
    Well, if that's the case, we're quickly approaching red-light territory for the SSPX.  You certainly can't receive Sacraments at a chapel unless you know who's been there recently.
    Wouldn't you still be able to attend if you knew the priest was old rite ordained, given that premise?

    also didn't Lefebvre believe the new rite was on principle valid (at least some of the time) and sometimes not do a conditional ordination?  Not saying whether that's good or bad, and I doubt he'd *refuse* someone a conditional one, but wasn't this always a thing with the SSPX, for better or worse?
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    Offline Histrionics

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #8 on: September 20, 2020, 11:24:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on September 20, 2020, 08:50:27 PM
    Wouldn't you still be able to attend if you knew the priest was old rite ordained, given that premise?

    also didn't Lefebvre believe the new rite was on principle valid (at least some of the time) and sometimes not do a conditional ordination?  Not saying whether that's good or bad, and I doubt he'd *refuse* someone a conditional one, but wasn't this always a thing with the SSPX, for better or worse?
    I assume Lad is referring to other hosts already consecrated that'd be distributed.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #9 on: September 20, 2020, 11:48:50 PM »
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    • The congregation in Ridgefield split over this. As far as I know Msgr Byrne who was in Ridgefield at the time and who now covers St Jude's in Philadelphia was not conditionally ordained. Maybe he is now , I don't know. Big issue
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #10 on: September 21, 2020, 04:56:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on September 20, 2020, 04:37:39 PM
    We have this new priest in the priory who comes from the novus ordo.
    He was in the SSPX seminary for less than a year and now is installed permanently in the priory.
    As far as I know, he was not conditionally ordained. I've sent some e-mails under a pseudonym and I have not received an answer. I can only assume that the answer is negative, as it seems to be the norm in the SSPX these days. He was saying mass in another priory even before he went to the seminary.
    If you cannot ask face to face, then why don't you ask in confession? "Father, can you please tell me if you were conditionally ordained in the old rite." Let us know what he said.

    Every time I've asked a priest about their ordination, they were all always very willing and open, even eager to talk about it. They know and understand why you ask, so have no fear.    
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    Online Giovanni Berto

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #11 on: September 21, 2020, 02:25:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matto on September 20, 2020, 06:27:43 PM
    There are, or were last I checked, two such Novus Ordo ordained priests in the Ridgefield priory which serves the mission where I used to go to Mass. (hopefully will again but currently there are no Masses because of the corona hoax). I don't think their ordinations are invalid, but there are sedes here who refuse to go to Mass when one of those priests says Mass. It has caused problems, even for non-sedes, and it is one reason why many people stopped going to Ridgefield for Mass and switched to the quasi-secret chapel where Bishop Zendejas supposedly says Mass.
    Even if you go to the mass of a traditionally ordained priest, the problem of who consecrated the hosts will always be present. If the validity of the ordination of one of the resident priests is questionable, you can never be sure of what you are receiving at communion.
    Quote from: josefamenendez on September 20, 2020, 11:48:50 PM
    The congregation in Ridgefield split over this. As far as I know Msgr Byrne who was in Ridgefield at the time and who now covers St Jude's in Philadelphia was not conditionally ordained. Maybe he is now , I don't know. Big issue
    Big issue indeed. I know nothing about it, but judging from what I've read on other threads, conditional ordination is rare in the SSPX nowadays. Apparently it's been like this since Benedict XVI became pope, because if you question the validity of the new rites of ordination, you question his Episcopacy and, consequently, you assume that sedevacantism is possible. Not good for Bp. Fellay of Fr. Pagliarani.
    I imagine that conditional confirmations will be banned soon, sadly.
    Quote from: Stubborn on September 21, 2020, 04:56:06 AM
    If you cannot ask face to face, then why don't you ask in confession? "Father, can you please tell me if you were conditionally ordained in the old rite." Let us know what he said.

    Every time I've asked a priest about their ordination, they were all always very willing and open, even eager to talk about it. They know and understand why you ask, so have no fear.    
    This is good advice. Thank you.
    I will ask him if I have this opportunity.
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    Online Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #12 on: September 21, 2020, 03:50:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 20, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
      I’m sure they’d do a conditional if you asked for it.
    Unfortunately, this is not the case. I know of a few cases, but the case of Father Voigt in particular. I know for a fact that Father V. asked to be conditionally ordained and they refused. Fortunately for him Bishop W. did it when he left the SSPX.

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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #13 on: September 21, 2020, 06:44:16 PM »
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    • Treat him as you would treat any other layman in the parish.
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    Offline SAP1571

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    Re: How should we deal with a non conditionally ordained priest in the SSPX?
    « Reply #14 on: September 22, 2020, 02:48:19 AM »
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    • But wasn't exactly this issue (i.e. whether all priests who come to Tradition have to be conditionally re-ordained) the controversy between the Nine and Abp. Lefebvre when Abp. Lefebvre allowed Fr. Philip Stark to function in SSPX without conditional re-ordination? So how can you claim to follow the line of Abp. Lefebvre (which is what Resistance always claims to do) when your argument against the SSPX is basically the same as one of the arguments of the Nine for abandoning SSPX?

    Also, what about Fr. Perez, Fr. Sretenovic, Fr. Gruner and Fr. Hesse? Majority of people in Resistance support at least one of those priests... Abp. Felebvre was a friend of Fr. Hesse and Bp. Williamson (nor any other SSPX priest) ever warned the faithful about Fr. Gruner's supposedly doubtful sacraments...
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