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Offline Last Tradhican

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How Not to Debate on CI
« on: November 10, 2017, 06:01:54 AM »
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  • My thread "Why I do Not Push the Sede Position"  is a perfect example of  a subject of discussion turning into a food fight. Except for like 3-4 postings, everything posted in the 5 pages after my OP has nothing to do with the OP. Someone mentions baptism of desire of the catechumen, which has nothing to do with the thread and another one about the sede position in general and  then from there starts a food fight about personal issues between the posters.

    My OP is not a big deal, but if the OP were a really  important teaching, it would have been totally obscured by the chaff that comes afterwards, ALL from unfocused  minds whether purposeful to obscure, or done unknowingly.

    Here’s my advice from years of experience, stay focused on the subject, ignore personal attacks against you. Do not respond to postings that have nothing to do with the subject of the OP. Do not respond to women who debate (No problem answering the ladies who ask questions sincerely). Some men debate like women, taking everything personal, do not let them get your goat, they are like children. Would you debate with a child?
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 07:39:46 AM »
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  • I am interested in following the discussion on this topic.  Perhaps I will have something to add later.
    Most sweet Jesus, whose overflowing charity for men is requited by so much forgetfulness, negligence and contempt, behold us prostrate before you, eager to repair by a special act of homage the cruel indifference and injuries to which your loving Heart is


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 07:59:22 AM »
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  • Yeah, I've been complaining about this for years.  ANY question related to the crisis in the Church quickly blows up into a rehash of every single Sedevacantist vs. R&R argument ever made.  EVERY thread about a specific or limited aspect of the "Feeneyite" question turns into a full-blown rehash of the entire debate.  It gets old.  People need to confine themselves to the specific topic raised by the OP.  Not sure if there's a way to enforce this.

    So, for instance, the thread about "Why so many Feeneyites on CI?" is a very narrow topic.  This should NOT have blown up into a debate of all things Feeneyism.  But it was inevitable.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 08:18:18 AM »
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  • So, for instance, the thread about "Why so many Feeneyites on CI?" is a very narrow topic.  This should NOT have blown up into a debate of all things Feeneyism.  But it was inevitable.
    Yes, that is a good example, your first comment that you made on that thread answered the question posed. Actually nothing else needed to be said except maybe further elaboration on your answer for those less informed on the subject.  
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 08:25:44 AM »
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  • It's a fantastic example, of echo chamber construction.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 09:38:19 AM »
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  • I understand it could be annoying however it is the normal development of any conversation.  Even in speaking in person, the conversation often spins off topic.    

    When a person joins a forum they should have a thicker skin or just remain a lurker. 

    Not wanting to address a woman is an example of weakness.  Perhaps the person should start his topics on the men only forum if he is so afraid a woman might make a good point against his agenda.  

    Also, any vicious ad hominem used mainly by men is a clear sign they have no control and their logic is skewed. 
    In otherwords, they lost it.   

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 10:05:26 AM »
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  • From my long experience, scripture is right on the money with this advice:

    "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence" (1Tim 2:12).

    This is why I said: "Do not respond to women who debate (No problem answering the ladies who ask questions sincerely).

    The same applies to bickering men who have nothing to offer in a discussion, if no one would respond to them, they would disappear. Like I said "Some men debate like women, taking everything personal, do not let them get your goat, they are like children. Would you debate with a child?"
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 10:15:26 AM »
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  • Just for the record, I have never considered myself a teacher.

    I do however, post what the Church TEACHES.  


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 10:20:37 AM »
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  • This is why I said: "Do not respond to women who debate (No problem answering the ladies who ask questions sincerely).

    The same applies to bickering men who have nothing to offer in a discussion, if no one would respond to them, they would disappear. Like I said "Some men debate like women, taking everything personal, do not let them get your goat, they are like children. Would you debate with a child?"
    There is no question that men do it too, but, like you, I associate taking things personally more with female posters.

    You did not mention the flip side of this, which is to avoid making personal attacks.  I try to always address the argument itself, rather than comment on the person.  (I might not always succeed, but I try.)

    Also, I find that learning whom one should ignore helps a lot.  Certain people or certain characteristics just push my buttons too much for me to deal with properly.  That's usually a situation where I should just walk away.
    Most sweet Jesus, whose overflowing charity for men is requited by so much forgetfulness, negligence and contempt, behold us prostrate before you, eager to repair by a special act of homage the cruel indifference and injuries to which your loving Heart is

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 10:23:20 AM »
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  • Just for the record, I have never considered myself a teacher.

    I do however, post what the Church TEACHES.  
    Sometimes there is a fine line between them.  I know that I struggle with this.  I really do not want to teach men or even seem like I am teaching men, but I do like to share Church teaching.
    Most sweet Jesus, whose overflowing charity for men is requited by so much forgetfulness, negligence and contempt, behold us prostrate before you, eager to repair by a special act of homage the cruel indifference and injuries to which your loving Heart is

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 10:43:33 AM »
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  • Sometimes there is a fine line between them.  I know that I struggle with this.  I really do not want to teach men or even seem like I am teaching men, but I do like to share Church teaching.
    Thus far, best I've read, you do quite well in this regard ma'am; so, please don't scruple yourself to tatters about it. 

    Too much is as bad as too little.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #11 on: November 10, 2017, 11:57:22 AM »
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  • Sometimes there is a fine line between them.  I know that I struggle with this.  I really do not want to teach men or even seem like I am teaching men, but I do like to share Church teaching.
     I wonder what they think of nuns teaching.  I merely repeat what the nuns taught me, and I too like to share Church teachings. 

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #12 on: November 10, 2017, 12:00:01 PM »
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  • I wonder what they think of nuns teaching.  I merely repeat what the nuns taught me, and I too like to share Church teachings.
    I thought that nuns taught children. Did nuns ever teach men before Vatican II?
    Most sweet Jesus, whose overflowing charity for men is requited by so much forgetfulness, negligence and contempt, behold us prostrate before you, eager to repair by a special act of homage the cruel indifference and injuries to which your loving Heart is

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #13 on: November 10, 2017, 05:27:16 PM »
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  • What were you expecting from your first OP?  Did you just want folks to agree or disagree without saying anything else?  I didn't respond but I think it would be hard not to add comments about sedevacantism and EENS given that was the main thrust of the OP.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: How Not to Debate on CI
    « Reply #14 on: November 10, 2017, 06:43:36 PM »
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  • I thought that nuns taught children. Did nuns ever teach men before Vatican II?
    They also taught high school young men or if you prefer to say, boys, so be it.

    However, consider St. Catherine of Siena who played an essential part in ending the Great Western Schism when she encouraged Blessed Pope Gregory XI in 1378.  Catholic history proves that many women taught the entire Church, both men, and women with their writings. 
     
    Yet, if it bothers some men here that feel threatened they could put us on ignore, I don't know how to do it, but I remember DZ Please knows how maybe he will come along and tell the men here. OR we women can just post recipes and talk in the women's forum if you are afraid of teaching a man.
     
    I myself never felt I was teaching anyone but just sharing my views, but if I am sinning, I better just leave altogether.  Never to offend God again for I have offended Him in the past too much.  
    Blessings to all

     

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