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Author Topic: How is this SSPV position not schismatic?  (Read 1899 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: How is this SSPV position not schismatic?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2020, 10:37:36 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on September 22, 2020, 09:59:56 AM
Schism is not only in separating oneself from the Pope, but it's also considered schismatic to separate oneself from those whom the Church considers to be Catholic.  So, for instance, when the Dimonds declare as heretics outside the Church even those who believe in a Thomistic Baptism of Desire, that's schismatic, whether or not the See is vacant ... since the Church has never considered those who hold this opinion to be outside the Church.  That is my major issue with the Dimonds; I do not strongly disagree with too many of their actual theological positions, but they cross this line when they excommunicate and anathematize Catholics that the Church has never excluded from her membership.
 
True. Good point.
As you noted, this is not what Father Jenkins is doing. 
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Offline ByzCat3000

Re: How is this SSPV position not schismatic?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 10:43:41 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on September 22, 2020, 06:24:58 AM
Right.  They do not claim that such are not Catholic ... well, for the most part (and I’ll get to this later) but priests are permitted and even enjoined by Canon Law not to give Holy Communion to public sinners, those immodestly dressed, etc. in that it would cause scandal.  They rely upon this to withhold the Sacraments.  I know Fr. Jenkins very well and he does not hold that everyone in the NO is a non-Catholic.
OK so I get the immodest dress thing, and other public sinners.  Is his argument, then, that attending an NO or Indult Mass makes one a "public sinner?"  And if so what would be the basis for that?  How would communing such people be "scandalous?"

To be clear, I am not accusing anyone of schism, I'm just trying to understand how it *isn't*
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How is this SSPV position not schismatic?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2020, 02:47:20 PM »
Quote from: ByzCat3000 on September 22, 2020, 10:43:41 AM
OK so I get the immodest dress thing, and other public sinners.  Is his argument, then, that attending an NO or Indult Mass makes one a "public sinner?"  And if so what would be the basis for that?  How would communing such people be "scandalous?"

To be clear, I am not accusing anyone of schism, I'm just trying to understand how it *isn't*

I'm not privy to the exact syllogism they would use here, so I'd only be speculating, but I can see a logical line being drawn from attending a Protestant service and causing scandal.  Whether or not the person is actually guilty of formal sin in the internal forum can't be judged.  So, for instance, it's possible that a woman who is immodestly dressed might show up to Mass without having any idea that she's doing something wrong.  But scandal is in the external forum, regardless of intent.  By giving such folks the Sacraments, the priest could be given the impression that something that person does publicly is acceptable.  So they do not want to give the impression that it's acceptable to attend the Novus Ordo, for instance.
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Offline claudel

Re: How is this SSPV position not schismatic?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 04:52:56 PM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on September 22, 2020, 06:02:59 AM

… they should never refuse anyone at the communion rail unless they are known public sinners or do not present themselves properly to receive our Lord.

Good answer. Besides, unless things have changed remarkably, no properly attired person who seeks to attend an SSPV mass is grilled at the door as to his theology. So long as a person's faith is firm and his conscience is clear and properly formed, there is certainly nothing wrong about his keeping mum about his differences of opinion with the several curious beliefs of the SSPV mob. The bottom line is that the Catholic in question is seeking a True Mass and the SSPV is offering one.
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Offline Reginacaeli

Re: How is this SSPV position not schismatic?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2021, 02:55:48 PM »
I am new so don't know how to start a new thread - I just moved away from my SSPX parish that I loved.  The closest SSPX parish is now  2hours one way.  SSPV is less than an hour.  Is the SSPV valid and will it fulfill my Sunday obligation? 
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