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Author Topic: How do you defend the Church’s Head?  (Read 840 times)

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Offline Carissima

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How do you defend the Church’s Head?
« on: October 07, 2021, 02:59:52 PM »
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  • Forgive me if this opens a can of sede worms. But how do you defend the current Pope and protect the integrity of the Church and her Authority over mankind at the same time? 

    Here is an example from a post today on a non-denominational healthy moms group I am in. The post was in regards to a concerned mother and the recent whistleblower at Project Veritas. She said she wondered what the Pope would think about it. So several in the comments are saying that the Catholic’s Leader has thrown us all under the bus even including non-Catholics. 
    Here is some of those comments…







    So if you were going to defend the Church and Her Head, what would you say?




    Offline Carissima

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #1 on: October 07, 2021, 03:17:46 PM »
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  • Just FYI, I have been in this group since before covid. Most of the ladies there are 100% against the vaxx and everything else that goes with this deception. The group has gone from discussing common ailments and healthy living, to basically all out ‘Survival Mode’.
    There is a mixture of Protestant and non religious with everything in between. The common factor there is being healthy, avoiding most chemicals and especially Big Pharma. 


    Offline songbird

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #2 on: October 07, 2021, 04:00:49 PM »
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  • The Church Christ founded, knew from the start, that radical Jєωs would be taken on by Satan/demons.  To be pretenders, to take over not just Church but in all high places, which you see today.  God has permitted this. Chapter 12 of Daniel says the continual sacrifice of the Mass will end. That will last about 3 and a half years.

    Church knew, therefore popes said, no support or protection for Jєωs.  Inquistions questioned those clergy who were suspected of being pretenders.  Nations protected their borders of Jєωs.

    After Pius X, there was a change, where  no support and no  protection of Jєωs ,are no longer mentioned.

    Satan will not waste his time with other sects.  He will destroy where truth and precious blood is.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #3 on: October 07, 2021, 04:42:12 PM »
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  • I would say Bergolio is an anti-pope, and the Church has survived anti-popes before. Most Prots I know are happy with that.

    If they want more details, explain ex Cathedra. If a pope says pizza is best with pepperoni that's just his personal opinion and not binding on Catholics. His statement on the vax falls into this pizza category.

    Papal teachings are only ex Cathedra if or when a pope is speaking on matters of faith or morals and when he explicitly states that he is speaking with the full authority of the Church as in Pro Quorum.

    BTY It is my understanding that a moto proprio is not ex Cathedra unless specifically stated as infallible.




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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #4 on: October 07, 2021, 04:57:49 PM »
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  • Papal teachings are only ex Cathedra if or when a pope is speaking on matters of faith or morals and when he explicitly states that he is speaking with the full authority of the Church as in Pro Quorum.

    BTY It is my understanding that a moto proprio is not ex Cathedra unless specifically stated as infallible.
    True, but, we are still required to give non-infallible docuмents, such as his motu, the assent of faith because it is still part of the Ordinary Magisterium. Not just those things ex Cathedra, which was condemned by Pope Pius IX.

    As for the question at hand, just lay it out plainly: the man is a heretic who has publicly apostatized from the Catholic faith and therefore we need not obey him. You don't need to get into the nuances of the various trad positions with non-Catholics.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline StLouisIX

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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 11:38:32 PM »
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  • True, but, we are still required to give non-infallible docuмents, such as his motu, the assent of faith because it is still part of the Ordinary Magisterium. Not just those things ex Cathedra, which was condemned by Pope Pius IX.

    As for the question at hand, just lay it out plainly: the man is a heretic who has publicly apostatized from the Catholic faith and therefore we need not obey him. You don't need to get into the nuances of the various trad positions with non-Catholics.

    To qualify as Ordinary Magisterium it must be 'what has always and everywhere been taught by the Church.'

    Nobody can name even one thing that Jorge has done or said that is 'what has always and everywhere been taught by the Church.'

    As far as I am concerned Jorge is the "destroyer not a pastor… not canonically elected" about whom St. Francis of Assisi warned us. Jorge also seems to fit the bill of 2 Thess 2:4.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 11:50:34 PM »
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  • Forgive me if this opens a can of sede worms. …
    Even the Novus Ordo has contradicted Jorge.

    See the first 3 pages and footnotes for a COVID vaccine exemption affidavit available online.

    See also:


    Quote
    …8) Also, I am aware that the United States Supreme Court has held that “[W]e reject the notion that to claim the protection of the Free Exercise Clause, one must be responding to the commands of a particular religious organization.” Frazee v. Illinois Dept. of Emp. Sec., 489 U.S. 829, 834, 109 S. Ct. 1514, 1517-18, 103 L. Ed. 2d 914 (1989). In other words, it is the law of the land that my personal religious belief against vaccination does not have to be supported by any particular religious organization, not even the Church to which I belong. I do not have to show that any particular religion positively forbids me to take a COVID-19 vaccine. My personal religious belief forbids me.…




    Offline Angelus

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #8 on: October 08, 2021, 07:51:32 AM »
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  • I would tell them the truth. Benedict XVI (and his immediate predecessors) are fallible human beings. However, we Catholics believe, on faith, that in essential matters defined in Pastor Aeternus, an authentic Pope never errs. On the other hand, anyone can see, by examining the history of the Catholic Church, that many true popes erred in non-essential matters. So there is no problem to explain if you accept that Benedict is still and will be Pope until his death.

    The usurper (Daniel 11:21) Cardinal Bergoglio is another matter. He is not actually the Pope, aka the Vicar of Christ. He is the False Prophet. We are in "the end times," specifically the period called "the birth pangs" or "the beginning of the Sorrows" by Our Lord. The Bible and many approved prophecies have warned about this. St. Francis of Assisi, Quito, LaSalette, Leo XIII's St. Michael prayer, Fatima, Akita, etc. all specifically predict a period of apostasy at the highest levels of the Church. That same apostasy was referred to by St. Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and it is happening now with Bergoglio.

    The question of indefectibility does not come into play because there is still a Church with a visible, although impeded, head (Benedict XVI) and a mystical head (Jesus). The Church is still present, and will be until the end, in the faithful Remnant. In Zechariah 10, the prophet says:


    Quote
    2 For the idols have spoken what was unprofitable, and the diviners have seen a lie, and the dreamers have spoken vanity: they comforted in vain: therefore they were led away as a dock: they shall be afflicted, because they have no shepherd.


    He is talking about the bishops leading the laity astray. There is no true shepherd because Benedict has been imprisoned and Bergoglio and his henchmen are destroyers of souls, as you will soon see with the upcoming Synod on Synodality. But clearly, this prophecy implies that "the Church" is going through difficulties near the end, just before Jesus comes back. "They shall be afflicted." The "they" are Catholics.

    Bottom line: everything we are seeing was prophesied in the Bible. Get out of the weeds. Look at the big picture. Recognize where you are in salvation history. Again, if you haven't figured it out yet, you are in "the end times." All the prophecies will, most likely, play out within this decade. Do not fear. Love God and neighbor and utilize the Sacraments as long as they are available. They are likely to become scarce in the near future.


    Online Stubborn

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    Re: How do you defend the Church’s Head?
    « Reply #9 on: October 08, 2021, 09:36:49 AM »
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  • Why not just say the pope is a sinner, in need of many prayers. If that's not good enough, you can elaborate if you want.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse