Author Topic: How do you deal with Novus Ordo Catholics? (Read 6733 times)

2Vermont · « **on:** December 20, 2015, 07:32:08 AM »

As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

HiddenServant · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2015, 08:04:01 AM »

I believe many think loyalty is like that of how the Apostle John
stood by Jesus and they feel that they need to defend what left
is Catholic and hope to convert them back to the true faith. Let
alone many are afraid to go to conservative churches that are
with the Tridentine Rite. Some left to go to Eastern Rite and others
i heard were so fed up with modernism they either became Orthodox
Christians or Protestants ! That i found out for many years on Facebook !

May they see the light and come back to God !

McCork · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2015, 08:07:02 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

They need graces. That's really the answer. Our prayers, penances and sacrifices for them are the solution, and offer them without frustration.

HiddenServant · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2015, 08:08:49 AM »

Some of them had the grace and left. Some still do and are afraid
to leave because they follow the crowd. Remember many are not showing
their true self, and are hiding as many good people do not want to be alone.

Marlelar · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2015, 12:32:07 PM »

Unless they bring up the subject of the waywardness of the institutional Church I leave them to the mercy of God.

I suspect that most NOers don't even realize what has changed and why it is bad because they do not read widely, just whatever comes in their diocesan paper. NOers are an ignorant tribe of monkeys!

All of my family are fat, dumb, and happy NO Catholics. They do not even want to discuss what is going on right now. My mother actually told me, "Like good pope Francis says, 'Who am I to judge?'" and that I am out of line (read sinning) by voicing any criticism of God's chosen leader on earth.

(I need an exploding head emoticon to insert here)

that God will have mercy on their souls

TKGS · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2015, 03:14:51 PM »

Quote from: Marlelar

My mother actually told me, "Like good pope Francis says, 'Who am I to judge?'" and that I am out of line (read sinning) by voicing any criticism of God's chosen leader on earth.

When they criticize you, have you ever considered asking them, "Who are you to judge?"

I live no where near either of our families, who are mostly irreligious, Protestants, with a couple of Novus Ordo families (and one sister who returned to the traditional faith, or, as she put it, the faith and the Mass of her youth!). We don't discuss religion because none of them will hear it. Honestly, they hate the Catholic Church. We see them only on very, very few occasions (the last time being six years ago).

We live in a rural area and there are no Novus Ordo Catholics around us. I simply don't have any contact with them other than poche, a few others on CathInfo, and an occasional homeschooling event in which case, we are usually involved in some activity in which the faith is simply not the topic of conversation.

To answer the topic question, How do you deal with Novus Ordo Catholics? I deal with them politely. I don't throw the pearls before the swine. If they ask any question about my (traditional) faith, I answer them and explain the true faith. Very few are open to discussion and when they are not open, I simply leave them alone.

By the way, returning to my first sentence, I realize that if you were to ask that, it wouldn't make sense to them. They've seen that "good pope Francis" (isn't that supposed to be "humble pope Francis"?) only says we can't judge sin while anything Catholic must be judged as harshly as possible.

OHCA · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2015, 05:53:08 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

(isn't that supposed to be "humble pope Francis"?)

His Humbleness

Tedeum · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2015, 07:42:24 PM »

I think you need to view and approach them the same way you ought to approach other non-Catholics. Be kind. Be charitable. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Sometimes too - these people are good people. I worked for a NO company (literally they were a "Catholic" organization) and every single day they used their lunch breaks to attend Mass at a nearby church and they had an hour of he day reserved for reciting the rosary.

I avoided the false mass, but did find time to say the rosary with them and appreciated that devotion on their part.

Obviously other people out there are not as reverent or devout... and they are religious or Catholic in name only. Again, approach them the way you would any other non Catholic. Be charitable.

Me personally - I would never step foot in a NO church, or go near a NO event, and a lot of the stuff involving anything from the local diocese to Rome - right now it's of little consequence as these people, places, and things are not Catholic.

By the same token, I have relatives who are members of a local orchestra which has all the events in a protestant church in my area. I've refused to go each time, because I will not step foot in a non Catholic church.

But avoiding any notice or attendance of false Masses, etc.... that doesn't mean I am openly negative to the actual people who may belong to these other religions.

A lot of people out there are very eager to get into arguments with others... and while that makes you feel better, it's not the best way to guide souls to the Faith. If you are a practicing Catholic - people will notice that you are different and ask questions on their own. And there's a nice way to explain and encourage that may go very far to converting others.

My opinion.

Tedeum · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2015, 07:55:53 PM »

Meant to add, but ran out of time to edit my comment...

My dad was a convert when he was young. He'd been raised as a "nothing" by his parents. He converted his family. Later on, both he and my mom were converts again when they discovered the traditional movement... and my dad again converted his family as well.

Both my sisters met non-Catholics whom they fell in love with. And they converted those guys.

These conversions occurred through influence, not antagonism.

McCork · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2015, 08:00:57 PM »

Quote from: Tedeum

that doesn't mean I am openly negative to the actual people who may belong to these other religions.

Correction. There is no such thing as "other religions". The Catholic Church is the true religion. Others are false, which means they are NOT religions.

McCork · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2015, 08:06:02 PM »

Quote from: Tedeum

Meant to add, but ran out of time to edit my comment...

My dad was a convert when he was young. He'd been raised as a "nothing" by his parents. He converted his family. Later on, both he and my mom were converts again when they discovered the traditional movement... and my dad again converted his family as well.

Both my sisters met non-Catholics whom they fell in love with. And they converted those guys.

These conversions occurred through influence, not antagonism.

It sometimes works for someone to convert another through the love of espousal. But nevertheless, the Church says DO NOT marry someone who is not Catholic. The wisdom shows through statistics that it is most often a disaster. Don't tempt God by violating what is directed on the hopes of it turning out against statistics and being a hero.

Tedeum · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2015, 09:00:44 PM »

Quote from: McCork

It sometimes works for someone to convert another through the love of espousal. But nevertheless, the Church says DO NOT marry someone who is not Catholic. The wisdom shows through statistics that it is most often a disaster. Don't tempt God by violating what is directed on the hopes of it turning out against statistics and being a hero.

The issue is that if you married outside the church - you literally marry outside the church. You do not have a nuptial mass and the graces received at your wedding.

And the rest too is that I see people who wed non-Catholics, and lose their faith. Which is absolutely disastrous.

I know people who wed non-Catholics - and even with the agreement that children would be raised in the faith, not having a united front on religion - led to those children falling away in their teens.

So it is very true...

Both my sisters converted their spouses prior to marriage. The conversion occurred during courtship. My sisters dragging the guys to Mass with them, and our priest did the rest.

To me - there's people out there (and priests as well) who slam the door on non-Catholics and it's a severe lack of charity. Imagine if the Apostles did the same when Our Lord told them to go out and teach! Keep in mind, prior to them receiving the Holy Ghost - they stayed in hiding.

Quote

Correction. There is no such thing as "other religions". The Catholic Church is the true religion. Others are false, which means they are NOT religions.

There is only one true Church. One true religion. The others are false. Yes.

As a matter of definition though, yes, they are religions (false ones).

Disputaciones · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2015, 12:10:48 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

Are you forced to interact with them or are you picking up arguments?

MMagdala · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2015, 02:14:36 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

Be careful of assuming they are "happy." Most of them are merely "comfortable" and are governed by inertia. From the outside they appear "happy" because they do not know what they are missing. Most often, when they have a chance to discover the true Faith through exposure (and typically that starts with a trad Mass experience), the difference between the two religions suddenly becomes too visible to ignore, and they then realize that they were in fact unhappy, restless, dissatisfied..

There is another subset who are in denial and show that by open resistance to Tradition, when exposed. But there are far more who are ignorant of what Tradition even is. Keep in mind that most of the reason both groups I describe are so difficult to deal with is that the pro-V2 Propaganda Machine has worked overtime in the last 30 years. This recent period has been a step up from the immediate post-V2 period, which was more wild, unfocused, and "random" than the more current period (about 1995 to present), during which the Church hierarchy has been systematic about indoctrinating lay people into an utter rewrite of the Roman Catholic Church, a Church that could only be described as having permanently revolutionized Think Bolshevik Revolution, think French Revolution, think Mao revolution: aggressive, organized attempts at rewriting secular history in those cases, but they all have significant parallels to the post-V2 period, including purges, elimination of reading material, radically different architecture -- featuring entirely different symbols and concepts. How could I be "angry and frustrated" at the victims of such machinations? I'm angry all right, but not at ignorant, uneducated laity (for the most part). They have received shockingly poor shepherding. And yes, sometimes they are intellectually and spiritually lazy --- remarkably uncurious about their faith, but again -- Who has encouraged such Sloth and lack of curiosity and a dumbed-down religion? The clergy and hierarchy.

That's why a lot of trads realistically assess the chances of true restoration -- before End Times-- as very unlikely. And I tend to agree. I believe that trads will remain in the minority indefinitely.

2Vermont · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2015, 04:26:14 AM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

Quote from: 2Vermont
As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

Are you forced to interact with them or are you picking up arguments?

Well, it's typically in a forum...so no, I am not "forced". Maybe I should just stop posting on a non-trad forum. I guess I see that there is a handful of Catholics who are waking up and thought perhaps the same could happen to some of the others. I think, similar to interacting with Protestants on the board, these folks will never change. I have chosen to stop interacting with the Protestants especially those who hurl anti-Catholic, ignorant comments and "dusted off my feet". Maybe I need to just do the same with the NOs.