Author Topic: How do you deal with Novus Ordo Catholics? (Read 6770 times)

2Vermont · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2015, 04:32:32 AM »

Quote from: MMagdala

How could I be "angry and frustrated" at the victims of such machinations? I'm angry all right, but not at ignorant, uneducated laity (for the most part). They have received shockingly poor shepherding. And yes, sometimes they are intellectually and spiritually lazy --- remarkably uncurious about their faith, but again -- Who has encouraged such Sloth and lack of curiosity and a dumbed-down religion? The clergy and hierarchy.

That's why a lot of trads realistically assess the chances of true restoration -- before End Times-- as very unlikely. And I tend to agree. I believe that trads will remain in the minority indefinitely.

Yes, I understand this. However, when pre-Vatican II quotes from popes, catechisms, etc show a different teaching and they refuse to even consider it by either ignoring it, explaining it away, or shooting the messenger, then they become part of the problem too. Those who choose to close their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears absolutely play a part and are no longer victims. And some absolutely love the new religion.

As for your last point, I agree.

Stubborn · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2015, 04:40:28 AM »

Quote from: McCork

Quote from: 2Vermont
As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

They need graces. That's really the answer. Our prayers, penances and sacrifices for them are the solution, and offer them without frustration.

They need to accept the graces offered. The reason people remain NO is because they reject the graces to leave and to seek the truth.

I ask this following question to ex-NOers, *not* in spite or facetiously, rather to consider that perhaps you can introduce to them the same thing that prompted you to leave - what prompted you to leave?

It might have been some sermon you listened to or some priest or person you encountered or some prayer or something you read or some event which prompted you to finally correspond to the grace God offered you. Whatever it was that prompted you to finally correspond to the grace, consider offering them the same thing.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2015, 09:00:19 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Disputaciones
Quote from: 2Vermont
As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

Are you forced to interact with them or are you picking up arguments?

Well, it's typically in a forum...so no, I am not "forced". Maybe I should just stop posting on a non-trad forum. I guess I see that there is a handful of Catholics who are waking up and thought perhaps the same could happen to some of the others. I think, similar to interacting with Protestants on the board, these folks will never change. I have chosen to stop interacting with the Protestants especially those who hurl anti-Catholic, ignorant comments and "dusted off my feet". Maybe I need to just do the same with the NOs.

I see that as a waste of time.

Two of my uncles are outraged about the recent docuмent on the Jєωs, about them not needing a mission, and yet they are both indiferentists who believe you don't even need to be in the Catholic Church to be saved. One of them plays the guitar at the new mess he goes to and well they're totally Novus Ordo liberals, and yet this docuмent outraged them. They were saying it was an affront to Christ and that the whole thing apostatized now and things like that.

Do these two not even know the 1970 Good Friday prayer has the same idea and that they have been praying the same thing?

This is what I'm dealing with here. I heard them talking about this but I didn't do or say anything because I'm biding my time a little. They didn't know I heard them.

2Vermont · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2015, 03:21:00 PM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Disputaciones
Quote from: 2Vermont
As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

Are you forced to interact with them or are you picking up arguments?

Well, it's typically in a forum...so no, I am not "forced". Maybe I should just stop posting on a non-trad forum. I guess I see that there is a handful of Catholics who are waking up and thought perhaps the same could happen to some of the others. I think, similar to interacting with Protestants on the board, these folks will never change. I have chosen to stop interacting with the Protestants especially those who hurl anti-Catholic, ignorant comments and "dusted off my feet". Maybe I need to just do the same with the NOs.

I see that as a waste of time.

Two of my uncles are outraged about the recent docuмent on the Jєωs, about them not needing a mission, and yet they are both indiferentists who believe you don't even need to be in the Catholic Church to be saved. One of them plays the guitar at the new mess he goes to and well they're totally Novus Ordo liberals, and yet this docuмent outraged them. They were saying it was an affront to Christ and that the whole thing apostatized now and things like that.

Do these two not even know the 1970 Good Friday prayer has the same idea and that they have been praying the same thing?

This is what I'm dealing with here. I heard them talking about this but I didn't do or say anything because I'm biding my time a little. They didn't know I heard them.

You're right. It is a waste of time. I'm banging my head against the wall. I have decided to move on.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #19 on:** December 21, 2015, 04:09:11 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Disputaciones
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Disputaciones
Quote from: 2Vermont
As I stated in another thread, I am increasingly frustrated with the Novus Ordo Catholics.

I can no longer deal with their constant explaining away of Francis, Vatican II, and most recently the Vatican docuмent on the Jєωs. For example, I have a Novus Ordite Drunk-with-the Vatican II Kool Aid Catholic telling me that when I explain that the Church has always taught that the Jєωs are no longer the Chosen People and that this docuмent blatantly contradicts that teaching that this is "theological anti-Semitism".

There is a small minority in the NO who are beginning to see the light, but the others are clueless and blind and I am getting to the point where I think that they are choosing to remain so. Perhaps similar to the apostles when they first preached the Gospel, we are to speak the Truth and then dust the sand off our feet.

What do you all think and how have you interacted/not interacted with these souls? What do you do when this anger and frustration sets in? I hear part of what Bishop Williamson is saying about not abandoning those left in the NO, but it seems to me that more often than not they are quite happy where they are and see no need or reason to leave.

Are you forced to interact with them or are you picking up arguments?

Well, it's typically in a forum...so no, I am not "forced". Maybe I should just stop posting on a non-trad forum. I guess I see that there is a handful of Catholics who are waking up and thought perhaps the same could happen to some of the others. I think, similar to interacting with Protestants on the board, these folks will never change. I have chosen to stop interacting with the Protestants especially those who hurl anti-Catholic, ignorant comments and "dusted off my feet". Maybe I need to just do the same with the NOs.

I see that as a waste of time.

Two of my uncles are outraged about the recent docuмent on the Jєωs, about them not needing a mission, and yet they are both indiferentists who believe you don't even need to be in the Catholic Church to be saved. One of them plays the guitar at the new mess he goes to and well they're totally Novus Ordo liberals, and yet this docuмent outraged them. They were saying it was an affront to Christ and that the whole thing apostatized now and things like that.

Do these two not even know the 1970 Good Friday prayer has the same idea and that they have been praying the same thing?

This is what I'm dealing with here. I heard them talking about this but I didn't do or say anything because I'm biding my time a little. They didn't know I heard them.

You're right. It is a waste of time. I'm banging my head against the wall. I have decided to move on.

Yeah, if you add up how long it takes to write replies, it quickly adds up to a lot of time spent on people who don't even care.

McCork · « **Reply #20 on:** December 21, 2015, 05:45:51 PM »

Quote from: Tedeum

Quote from: McCork

It sometimes works for someone to convert another through the love of espousal. But nevertheless, the Church says DO NOT marry someone who is not Catholic. The wisdom shows through statistics that it is most often a disaster. Don't tempt God by violating what is directed on the hopes of it turning out against statistics and being a hero.

The issue is that if you married outside the church - you literally marry outside the church. You do not have a nuptial mass and the graces received at your wedding.

And the rest too is that I see people who wed non-Catholics, and lose their faith. Which is absolutely disastrous.

I know people who wed non-Catholics - and even with the agreement that children would be raised in the faith, not having a united front on religion - led to those children falling away in their teens.

So it is very true...

Both my sisters converted their spouses prior to marriage. The conversion occurred during courtship. My sisters dragging the guys to Mass with them, and our priest did the rest.

To me - there's people out there (and priests as well) who slam the door on non-Catholics and it's a severe lack of charity. Imagine if the Apostles did the same when Our Lord told them to go out and teach! Keep in mind, prior to them receiving the Holy Ghost - they stayed in hiding.

The bottom line is that we are obliged to seek Catholic spouses. And it is not statistically prudent to expect a solid conversion while courting.

Quote from: Tedeum

Quote from: McCork
Correction. There is no such thing as "other religions". The Catholic Church is the true religion. Others are false, which means they are NOT religions.

There is only one true Church. One true religion. The others are false. Yes.

As a matter of definition though, yes, they are religions (false ones).

Perhaps that is Webster, but a Catholic definition is that "religion" is Catholicism. If it is not Catholicism it is NOT religion. False means it is NOT, and NOT means it is false. And it is pretty silly if I were to say I am a bishop of the United States, and for you to say, "well, yes you are a bishop, but you are a false one." That really is just modernist-type of double-talk.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #21 on:** December 21, 2015, 06:01:18 PM »

Quote from: McCork

Quote from: Tedeum
Quote from: McCork

It sometimes works for someone to convert another through the love of espousal. But nevertheless, the Church says DO NOT marry someone who is not Catholic. The wisdom shows through statistics that it is most often a disaster. Don't tempt God by violating what is directed on the hopes of it turning out against statistics and being a hero.

The issue is that if you married outside the church - you literally marry outside the church. You do not have a nuptial mass and the graces received at your wedding.

And the rest too is that I see people who wed non-Catholics, and lose their faith. Which is absolutely disastrous.

I know people who wed non-Catholics - and even with the agreement that children would be raised in the faith, not having a united front on religion - led to those children falling away in their teens.

So it is very true...

Both my sisters converted their spouses prior to marriage. The conversion occurred during courtship. My sisters dragging the guys to Mass with them, and our priest did the rest.

To me - there's people out there (and priests as well) who slam the door on non-Catholics and it's a severe lack of charity. Imagine if the Apostles did the same when Our Lord told them to go out and teach! Keep in mind, prior to them receiving the Holy Ghost - they stayed in hiding.

The bottom line is that we are obliged to seek Catholic spouses. And it is not statistically prudent to expect a solid conversion while courting.

Quote from: Tedeum

Quote from: McCork
Correction. There is no such thing as "other religions". The Catholic Church is the true religion. Others are false, which means they are NOT religions.

There is only one true Church. One true religion. The others are false. Yes.

As a matter of definition though, yes, they are religions (false ones).

Perhaps that is Webster, but a Catholic definition is that "religion" is Catholicism. If it is not Catholicism it is NOT religion. False means it is NOT, and NOT means it is false. And it is pretty silly if I were to say I am a bishop of the United States, and for you to say, "well, yes you are a bishop, but you are a false one." That really is just modernist-type of double-talk.

You're just making a mountain out of a mole hill.

This kind of nutty thing is what makes traditionalists look bad.

And you're wrong anyway. Even before V2 those in the Church referred to false religions as "religions".

McCork · « **Reply #22 on:** December 21, 2015, 06:22:20 PM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Tedeum
Quote from: McCork

It sometimes works for someone to convert another through the love of espousal. But nevertheless, the Church says DO NOT marry someone who is not Catholic. The wisdom shows through statistics that it is most often a disaster. Don't tempt God by violating what is directed on the hopes of it turning out against statistics and being a hero.

The issue is that if you married outside the church - you literally marry outside the church. You do not have a nuptial mass and the graces received at your wedding.

And the rest too is that I see people who wed non-Catholics, and lose their faith. Which is absolutely disastrous.

I know people who wed non-Catholics - and even with the agreement that children would be raised in the faith, not having a united front on religion - led to those children falling away in their teens.

So it is very true...

Both my sisters converted their spouses prior to marriage. The conversion occurred during courtship. My sisters dragging the guys to Mass with them, and our priest did the rest.

To me - there's people out there (and priests as well) who slam the door on non-Catholics and it's a severe lack of charity. Imagine if the Apostles did the same when Our Lord told them to go out and teach! Keep in mind, prior to them receiving the Holy Ghost - they stayed in hiding.

The bottom line is that we are obliged to seek Catholic spouses. And it is not statistically prudent to expect a solid conversion while courting.

Quote from: Tedeum

Quote from: McCork
Correction. There is no such thing as "other religions". The Catholic Church is the true religion. Others are false, which means they are NOT religions.

There is only one true Church. One true religion. The others are false. Yes.

As a matter of definition though, yes, they are religions (false ones).

Perhaps that is Webster, but a Catholic definition is that "religion" is Catholicism. If it is not Catholicism it is NOT religion. False means it is NOT, and NOT means it is false. And it is pretty silly if I were to say I am a bishop of the United States, and for you to say, "well, yes you are a bishop, but you are a false one." That really is just modernist-type of double-talk.

You're just making a mountain out of a mole hill.

This kind of nutty thing is what makes traditionalists look bad.

And you're wrong anyway. Even before V2 those in the Church referred to false religions as "religions".

Context is always important. If the context doesn't talk about "another religion" being false, then it is deceptive and dangerous. Vatican II is destructive and dangerous. If you can find a pre-Vatican II text that shows the same usage as Vatican II, then be my guest in presenting it here.

Tedeum · « **Reply #23 on:** December 21, 2015, 10:11:19 PM »

Quote

The bottom line is that we are obliged to seek Catholic spouses. And it is not statistically prudent to expect a solid conversion while courting.

Sometimes the way God arranges things - you don't find what you are looking for where you expect to find it. And put it a different way, those guys both were searching for something more than what they had. What initially attracted them to my sisters was the fact both were very Catholic and faith and practicing that faith were entwined in who they were. It's what got them talking in the first place.

Even today - you look around your church, and I'll bet you will see more than a few young people sitting back in their pews instead of going to communion every Sunday. <= Maybe I'm judging people when I shouldn't, but sometimes I wonder if these kids have any idea how fortunate they are to have access to the sacraments.

My brothers-in-law both are good men for whom practicing the faith and seeking the sacraments are very important to them.

These things happen by the grace of God - and befriending and guiding people to the true faith is what you are supposed to do - if it brings souls to Him.

Neither of my sisters were seeking spouses at all, by the way. I know it was something they prayed about from time to time and I know my mom was praying. They met and married the men they were supposed to marry. That's all.

Quote

Perhaps that is Webster, but a Catholic definition is that "religion" is Catholicism. If it is not Catholicism it is NOT religion. False means it is NOT, and NOT means it is false. And it is pretty silly if I were to say I am a bishop of the United States, and for you to say, "well, yes you are a bishop, but you are a false one." That really is just modernist-type of double-talk.

I can't work up the energy to really get worked up about things like this... it is enough for me to simply say "such and such is a false religion". It is right to the point and truthful.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #24 on:** December 21, 2015, 10:56:37 PM »

Quote from: McCork

Quote from: Disputaciones
Quote from: McCork
Quote from: Tedeum
Quote from: McCork

It sometimes works for someone to convert another through the love of espousal. But nevertheless, the Church says DO NOT marry someone who is not Catholic. The wisdom shows through statistics that it is most often a disaster. Don't tempt God by violating what is directed on the hopes of it turning out against statistics and being a hero.

The issue is that if you married outside the church - you literally marry outside the church. You do not have a nuptial mass and the graces received at your wedding.

And the rest too is that I see people who wed non-Catholics, and lose their faith. Which is absolutely disastrous.

I know people who wed non-Catholics - and even with the agreement that children would be raised in the faith, not having a united front on religion - led to those children falling away in their teens.

So it is very true...

Both my sisters converted their spouses prior to marriage. The conversion occurred during courtship. My sisters dragging the guys to Mass with them, and our priest did the rest.

To me - there's people out there (and priests as well) who slam the door on non-Catholics and it's a severe lack of charity. Imagine if the Apostles did the same when Our Lord told them to go out and teach! Keep in mind, prior to them receiving the Holy Ghost - they stayed in hiding.

The bottom line is that we are obliged to seek Catholic spouses. And it is not statistically prudent to expect a solid conversion while courting.

Quote from: Tedeum

Quote from: McCork
Correction. There is no such thing as "other religions". The Catholic Church is the true religion. Others are false, which means they are NOT religions.

There is only one true Church. One true religion. The others are false. Yes.

As a matter of definition though, yes, they are religions (false ones).

Perhaps that is Webster, but a Catholic definition is that "religion" is Catholicism. If it is not Catholicism it is NOT religion. False means it is NOT, and NOT means it is false. And it is pretty silly if I were to say I am a bishop of the United States, and for you to say, "well, yes you are a bishop, but you are a false one." That really is just modernist-type of double-talk.

You're just making a mountain out of a mole hill.

This kind of nutty thing is what makes traditionalists look bad.

And you're wrong anyway. Even before V2 those in the Church referred to false religions as "religions".

Context is always important. If the context doesn't talk about "another religion" being false, then it is deceptive and dangerous. Vatican II is destructive and dangerous. If you can find a pre-Vatican II text that shows the same usage as Vatican II, then be my guest in presenting it here.

Now you're switching arguments.

First you said the mere use of "religion" to refer to false religions, without specifying they're false, was bad.

NOW you're asking for something pre Vatican two that speaks about false religions with the same usage of Vatican two.

Which one is it?

MMagdala · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2015, 03:57:13 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: MMagdala
How could I be "angry and frustrated" at the victims of such machinations? I'm angry all right, but not at ignorant, uneducated laity (for the most part). They have received shockingly poor shepherding. And yes, sometimes they are intellectually and spiritually lazy --- remarkably uncurious about their faith, but again -- Who has encouraged such Sloth and lack of curiosity and a dumbed-down religion? The clergy and hierarchy.

That's why a lot of trads realistically assess the chances of true restoration -- before End Times-- as very unlikely. And I tend to agree. I believe that trads will remain in the minority indefinitely.

Yes, I understand this. However, when pre-Vatican II quotes from popes, catechisms, etc show a different teaching and they refuse to even consider it by either ignoring it, explaining it away, or shooting the messenger, then they become part of the problem too. Those who choose to close their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears absolutely play a part and are no longer victims. And some absolutely love the new religion.

But the men in power have not set a high standard. Where are the consequences for "sticking one's fingers in one's ears?" They don't exist. Where is the certain faith? Lay people in parishes are not being taught it. They are being selectively, carefully taught particular aspects of Catholicism, and generally only within a modern understanding of ancient truths which do not fit into a modern framework. So if they're not familiar with a particular concept or a particular truth/doctrine and therefore have a narrow and shallow understanding of Catholicism (the vast majority do), they are not likely to recognize anything deeper or more permanent as truly Catholic.

2Vermont · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2015, 05:59:28 AM »

Quote from: MMagdala

Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: MMagdala
How could I be "angry and frustrated" at the victims of such machinations? I'm angry all right, but not at ignorant, uneducated laity (for the most part). They have received shockingly poor shepherding. And yes, sometimes they are intellectually and spiritually lazy --- remarkably uncurious about their faith, but again -- Who has encouraged such Sloth and lack of curiosity and a dumbed-down religion? The clergy and hierarchy.

That's why a lot of trads realistically assess the chances of true restoration -- before End Times-- as very unlikely. And I tend to agree. I believe that trads will remain in the minority indefinitely.

Yes, I understand this. However, when pre-Vatican II quotes from popes, catechisms, etc show a different teaching and they refuse to even consider it by either ignoring it, explaining it away, or shooting the messenger, then they become part of the problem too. Those who choose to close their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears absolutely play a part and are no longer victims. And some absolutely love the new religion.

But the men in power have not set a high standard. Where are the consequences for "sticking one's fingers in one's ears?" They don't exist. Where is the certain faith? Lay people in parishes are not being taught it. They are being selectively, carefully taught particular aspects of Catholicism, and generally only within a modern understanding of ancient truths which do not fit into a modern framework. So if they're not familiar with a particular concept or a particular truth/doctrine and therefore have a narrow and shallow understanding of Catholicism (the vast majority do), they are not likely to recognize anything deeper or more permanent as truly Catholic.

Again, when one is confronted with contradictions, the onus is on each and every one of us to respond. It seems to me that such contradictions demand at the very least, an acknowledgement of "yeah, you know that doesn't make sense, I will check into that". At some point, one has to take full responsibility for their Catholic faith or lack thereof.

sword of the Spirit · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2015, 08:18:23 AM »

Most of those I have encountered have either fell into apostasy and have renounced the Catholic faith or deny the EENS dogma, the True Presence, etc .... and are heretics. Prayer and rosary.... and hope of conversion is all we have at this point.

Novus Ordo Catholic is a very liberal term IMO, because even if there were a Catholic (surely there are some) to be found in these assemblies, participating in an edifice of false worship it is a violation of the 1st commandment and soul killing.

I have yet to speak with someone who does not deny the EENS Dogma who is involved with the Novus Ordo, and in charity I make it clear that it is heresy. I also point out heretics are not Catholics/Christians. I have had some over the years say, "What are you saying, I'm not a Catholic then?" My answer is always the same, yes "you are not Catholic."

Cantarella · « **Reply #28 on:** December 22, 2015, 10:55:48 AM »

Quote from: sword of the spirit

I have yet to speak with someone who does not deny the EENS Dogma who is involved with the Novus Ordo, and in charity I make it clear that it is heresy.

You can start with the OP, then.

THE heresy is not only in the Novus Ordo, but is actually quite predominant in "Traditionalist" circles as well; yet most remain willfully blind; just as much as the Novu Ordites.

Respect to the question, when this type of feelings of frustration arise, the first thing to do should be to discern the spirit who is behind them and ask oneself sincerely where the feeling is originating from: whether is from a sincere and pious zeal for souls and a genuine preoccupation for the state of these people, or rather from a Pharisee "holy than thou" attitude which is a very common occurrence, a devilish snare of bitter zeal. If the reason is the former, then we should just continue doing what we are doing, even if it apparently falls into deaf ears as we never know how Our Lord and Our Lady may use us as an Apostle to someone else, and besides, we are obliged to be witnesses of Christ, the very Light of the world, everywhere we go, in the midst of darkness. If the reason if the second one though, then we need to pray the Rosary, go to confession as soon as possible, consult our spiritual advisor for advise and offer plenty of "Prayers of Deliverance".

2Vermont · « **Reply #29 on:** December 22, 2015, 02:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: sword of the spirit

I have yet to speak with someone who does not deny the EENS Dogma who is involved with the Novus Ordo, and in charity I make it clear that it is heresy.

You can start with the OP, then.

THE heresy is not only in the Novus Ordo, but is actually quite predominant in "Traditionalist" circles as well; yet most remain willfully blind; just as much as the Novu Ordites.

Respect to the question, when this type of feelings of frustration arise, the first thing to do should be to discern the spirit who is behind them and ask oneself sincerely where the feeling is originating from: whether is from a sincere and pious zeal for souls and a genuine preoccupation for the state of these people, or rather from a Pharisee "holy than thou" attitude which is a very common occurrence, a devilish snare of bitter zeal. If the reason is the former, then we should just continue doing what we are doing, even if it apparently falls into deaf ears as we never know how Our Lord and Our Lady may use us as an Apostle to someone else, and besides, we are obliged to be witnesses of Christ, the very Light of the world, everywhere we go, in the midst of darkness. If the reason if the second one though, then we need to pray the Rosary, go to confession as soon as possible, consult our spiritual advisor for advise and offer plenty of "Prayers of Deliverance".

Your bait: still not taking it. :smile: