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Author Topic: How do non-Sedevacantists reconcile the bull of Paul IV  (Read 580 times)

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Offline fast777

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How do non-Sedevacantists reconcile the bull of Paul IV
« on: February 09, 2014, 03:53:54 PM »
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  • I have been searching for a teaching on the Pope regarding Heresy & Schism and divine law and I have come across the following specific Bull by Pope IV


    Is this not cut and dry since he binds and speaks in Papal Authority in union with St. Peter?

    6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:

    (i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;
    (ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;

    (iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;

    (iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;

    (v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;

    (vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power.

    7. Finally, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity, We] also [enact, determine, define and decree]: that any and all persons who would have been subject to those thus promoted or elevated if they had not previously deviated from the Faith, become heretics, incurred schism or provoked or committed any or all of these, be they members of anysoever of the following categories: the Cardinals, even those who shall have taken part in the election of this very Pontiff previously deviating from the Faith or heretical or schismatical, or shall otherwise have consented and vouchsafed obedience to him and shall have venerated him;

    Castellans, Prefects, Captains and Officials, even of Our Beloved City and of the entire Ecclesiastical State, even if they shall be obliged and beholden to those thus promoted or elevated by homage, oath or security; shall be permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs (the same subject persons, nevertheless, remaining bound by the duty of fidelity and obedience to any future Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates, Cardinals and Roman Pontiff canonically entering).

       To the greater confusion, moreover, of those thus promoted or elevated, if these shall have wished to prolong their government and authority, they shall be permitted to request the assistance of the secular arm against these same individuals thus promoted or elevated; nor shall those who withdraw on this account, in the aforementioned circuмstances, from fidelity and obedience to those thus promoted and elevated, be subject, as are those who tear the tunic of the Lord, to the retribution of any censures or penalties.

    http://www.dailycatholic.org/cuмexapo.htm

    Thank you in advance.

    I wish after some critical thought on this subject to address Canon Hesse,did he ever voice his thoughts on this Bull?

    _________________________________________________________________


    Offline roscoe

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    How do non-Sedevacantists reconcile the bull of Paul IV
    « Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 08:07:59 PM »
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  • The above docuмent has been the topic of much controversy in the Forum. It is really not necessary to enumerate the v2 heresies that Paul IV describes--- all one needs to know is that the v2 anti-popes have not been legally elected.  :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Stubborn

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    How do non-Sedevacantists reconcile the bull of Paul IV
    « Reply #2 on: February 09, 2014, 09:45:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: fast777
    I have been searching for a teaching on the Pope regarding Heresy & Schism and divine law and I have come across the following specific Bull by Pope IV


    Is this not cut and dry since he binds and speaks in Papal Authority in union with St. Peter?



    It seems cut and dry, and if you start at the beginning, you will see the clear direction to follow which we are given is likewise cut and dry.

    1.In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman Pontiff,who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the fulness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted,.....

    Our knowledge of the Popes' sins in no way qualifies us to declare him deprived of his office, or never to have been elected. That is something only a future pope will be able to decide.

    Beyond that, if cuм ex Apostolatus Officio is to be taken literally, then IMO,  what roscoe said is it  - and there are no cardinals - or bishops or priests - excepting those validly ordained and who also never went along with the NO nor were otherwise converts.

    Too many things questionable about that constitution IMO.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline fast777

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    How do non-Sedevacantists reconcile the bull of Paul IV
    « Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 11:20:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    The above docuмent has been the topic of much controversy in the Forum. It is really not necessary to enumerate the v2 heresies that Paul IV describes--- all one needs to know is that the v2 anti-popes have not been legally elected.  :cheers:


    Quote

    It seems cut and dry, and if you start at the beginning, you will see the clear direction to follow which we are given is likewise cut and dry.

    1.In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman Pontiff,who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the fulness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted,.....

    Our knowledge of the Popes' sins in no way qualifies us to declare him deprived of his office, or never to have been elected. That is something only a future pope will be able to decide.

    Beyond that, if cuм ex Apostolatus Officio is to be taken literally, then IMO,  what roscoe said is it  - and there are no cardinals - or bishops or priests - excepting those validly ordained and who also never went along with the NO nor were otherwise converts.

    Too many things questionable about that constitution IMO.


    Do most Sede's hold this view. I never approached or thought it from that angle.....I need to sit down and ponder on that one.

    Offline fast777

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    How do non-Sedevacantists reconcile the bull of Paul IV
    « Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 11:54:27 PM »
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  • All the Trad Priests ordained in the old rite I knew are dead now. Fr, Poncelet died in Jan '13 God bless him.