Author Topic: How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?  (Read 3775 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Marlelar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3475
  • Reputation: +1812/-231
  • Gender: Female
How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
« on: June 27, 2016, 01:35:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Per John Vennari, Frank is not only Pope but also an "enemy of the faith"

    cfn link

    How can a true Pope, who is the Vicar of Christ on earth, be an ENEMY of the faith.

    Seems to me the two are mutually exclusive.

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4724
    • Reputation: +4010/-412
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 01:40:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Not for a Modernist.


    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6019
    • Reputation: +3488/-329
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 01:53:07 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Marlelar
    Per John Vennari, Frank is not only Pope but also an "enemy of the faith"

    cfn link

    How can a true Pope, who is the Vicar of Christ on earth, be an ENEMY of the faith.

    Seems to me the two are mutually exclusive.


    He can't
                                                     Which is why he is not a pope.

    Offline Stubborn

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10307
    • Reputation: +4058/-962
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #3 on: June 27, 2016, 02:11:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • The title of this thread asks;
    Quote
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?


    Please post any teaching from any magisterial document or any saint or father that teaches it is an impossibility that God would ever allow a pope to be an enemy of the Catholic faith.

    All I ask is that you do not post any teaching from any of the 20th century theologians.  
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5847
    • Reputation: +3347/-1460
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #4 on: June 27, 2016, 02:21:14 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The pope is only infallible when he follows the guidelines laid out by Vatican I.  If he doesn't follow these, strictly, he can err.  It's simple.

    If the pope couldn't err (either accidentally or purposefully) then why do we bother praying for him?


    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4724
    • Reputation: +4010/-412
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #5 on: June 27, 2016, 07:16:50 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I would think that there is a difference between "erring" and becoming an "enemy of the Faith".

    But I forget, there is a lot of doublethink on the forum.

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6019
    • Reputation: +3488/-329
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #6 on: June 27, 2016, 07:32:29 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stubborn
    The title of this thread asks;
    Quote
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?


    Please post any teaching from any magisterial document or any saint or father that teaches it is an impossibility that God would ever allow a pope to be an enemy of the Catholic faith.

    All I ask is that you do not post any teaching from any of the 20th century theologians.  


     Sounds like you already know the answer but it bothers your conscience to hear it again.


    I must have missed Matthews announcement when he appointed you moderator ...   :confused1:

    Congratulations on your promotion.   :wink:  


    Offline snowball

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 328
    • Reputation: +90/-122
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #7 on: June 27, 2016, 09:37:00 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • This man is dangerous to our souls.
    Even reading what he says, we must pray for
    protection before we can even contemplate
    on it enough to dislodge it from our consciences.
    Here, he says we should not confess and seek
    righteousness. His words are  demonic and
    they hurt me:

    http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-the-christian-life-proclaims-the-road-to-reco


    Offline Stubborn

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10307
    • Reputation: +4058/-962
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 06:49:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Quote from: Stubborn
    The title of this thread asks;
    Quote
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?


    Please post any teaching from any magisterial document or any saint or father that teaches it is an impossibility that God would ever allow a pope to be an enemy of the Catholic faith.

    All I ask is that you do not post any teaching from any of the 20th century theologians.  


     Sounds like you already know the answer but it bothers your conscience to hear it again.


    I must have missed Matthews announcement when he appointed you moderator ...   :confused1:

    Congratulations on your promotion.   :wink:  



    Typical non-answer / ridiculous remark.   And yes, I asked not to use any 20th century theologians teachings because everything points to their false teachings as being responsible for the belief among the masses that even in his fallible teachings, no matter what a pope teaches he cannot harm the faithful. If you only believe your own eyes, you cannot accept this as true.
     
    How else did this false teaching permeate all the theology manuals and seminaries etc.?
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10307
    • Reputation: +4058/-962
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #9 on: June 29, 2016, 05:49:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: Stubborn
    The title of this thread asks;
    Quote
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?


    Please post any teaching from any magisterial document or any saint or father that teaches it is an impossibility that God would ever allow a pope to be an enemy of the Catholic faith.

    All I ask is that you do not post any teaching from any of the 20th century theologians.  


    Not sure what your views are or what you are getting at but I think a true pope can not be an enemy of the Faith because to be that, he would have to teach heresy officially which would automatically exclude him from the faith and he would no longer be Pope. In his private capacity or his sins of the flesh, those do not attack the Faith.


    My view is that there is no way to prove the conciliar popes are not popes and proof is needed, that short of Divine Providence, there is nothing to stop a pope from doing what the conciliar popes have done. Nothing.  

    Most sedevacantists proclaim that "the pope is not the pope", as though it were an indisputable fact rising from divine revelation - when the real fact is the pope was elected in the same manner as the previous +200 popes, so the presumption must side with the same validity as all the previous elections. Which means that the pope is the pope until another pope at some time in the future makes the declaration that the conciliar popes have not been popes. No one else has the authority to do anything about it - this is demonstrated by the last 58 years where not one single thing has been done about these heretical popes by anybody.

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6019
    • Reputation: +3488/-329
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 09:01:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Stubborn,  you seem to ignore the fact that the elected Pope, must be Catholic with a good willed intention to do as the past True popes have always done in order to be a valid election.  Divine Law

    You need to read this: The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita

     The author quotes the actual Masonic document, which both Pope Pius IX (1846-1878) and Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903) asked to be published. This document describes the Masons' diabolical strategy to destroy the Church by infecting her leaders with Liberal ideas. Tells how they do not desire a masonic Pope, but rather a Pope infected with their ideas. Touches on Liberalism, the French Revolution, Freemasonry, Ecumenism, Modernism, the modernist conspiracy at Vatican II, and much more! An eye-opening book that every Catholic must read!


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5847
    • Reputation: +3347/-1460
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #11 on: June 29, 2016, 09:52:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Quote
    (to be) the elected Pope, (he) must be Catholic with a good willed intention to do as the past True popes have always done in order to be a valid election.


    Playing devil's advocate, but what does "have always done" mean?  There's multiple duties of the papacy.  And one can fulfil the job of pope without ever issuing an infallible statement (as this isn't required or necessary).  A pope could be a valid pope and not concern himself with church teachings much, if at all.  There's plenty of examples of 'worldly' popes in the 14-17th centuries.  

    He could fulfilll the role (if he were lazy) by just worrying about the temporal aspects of the Church, like building new churches/schools.

    Or, he could concern himself with fine tuning church disciplines/laws or improving catholic education, or promoting the greatness of Gregorian chant.

    Or, he could do none of that.  He would still be pope.

    Point is, there's no requirement for any pope to proclaim or teach anything that is catholic.  He can simply point to past statements made by popes or theologians or church documents.  The only requirement to be pope is to fulfill the duties of the office, which are mainly temporal duties.  Certainly, the pope has spiritual duties, but we all do.  But spiritual duties are of the personal, free-will, realm.  He can reject graces just like we all can.  It doesn't disqualify him from being pope.  

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7616
    • Reputation: +2539/-97
    • Gender: Male
    • I will not respond to any posts from Poche.
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 10:18:38 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Pax Vobis
    Quote
    (to be) the elected Pope, (he) must be Catholic with a good willed intention to do as the past True popes have always done in order to be a valid election.


    Playing devil's advocate, but what does "have always done" mean?  There's multiple duties of the papacy.  And one can fulfil the job of pope without ever issuing an infallible statement (as this isn't required or necessary).  A pope could be a valid pope and not concern himself with church teachings much, if at all.  There's plenty of examples of 'worldly' popes in the 14-17th centuries.  

    He could fulfilll the role (if he were lazy) by just worrying about the temporal aspects of the Church, like building new churches/schools.

    Or, he could concern himself with fine tuning church disciplines/laws or improving catholic education, or promoting the greatness of Gregorian chant.

    Or, he could do none of that.  He would still be pope.

    Point is, there's no requirement for any pope to proclaim or teach anything that is catholic.  He can simply point to past statements made by popes or theologians or church documents.  The only requirement to be pope is to fulfill the duties of the office, which are mainly temporal duties.  Certainly, the pope has spiritual duties, but we all do.  But spiritual duties are of the personal, free-will, realm.  He can reject graces just like we all can.  It doesn't disqualify him from being pope.  


    There use to be the Coronation Oath after the Pope is elected. Last one to
    take this Oath was Montini/Paul VI in 1963.
    Here is a link to the Coronation Oath:

    http://traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Information/Papal_Coronation_Oath.html


    Papal Coronation Oath

        "I vow to change nothing of the received Tradition, and nothing thereof I have found before me guarded by my God-pleasing predecessors, to encroach upon, to alter, or to permit any innovation therein;

        To the contrary: with glowing affection as her truly faithful student and successor, to safeguard reverently the passed-on good, with my whole strength and utmost effort;

        To cleanse all that is in contradiction to the canonical order, should such appear; to guard the Holy Canons and Decrees of our Popes as if they were the divine ordinance of Heaven, because I am conscious of Thee, whose place I take through the Grace of God, whose Vicarship I possess with Thy support, being subject to severest accounting before Thy Divine Tribunal over all that I shall confess;

        I swear to God Almighty and the Savior Jesus Christ that I will keep whatever has been revealed through Christ and His Successors and whatever the first councils and my predecessors have defined and declared.

        I will keep without sacrifice to itself the discipline and the rite of the Church. I will put outside the Church whoever dares to go against this oath, may it be somebody else or I.

        If I should undertake to act in anything of contrary sense, or should permit that it will be executed, Thou willst not be merciful to me on the dreadful Day of Divine Justice.

        Accordingly, without exclusion, We subject to severest excommunication anyone -- be it Ourselves or be it another -- who would dare to undertake anything new in contradiction to this constituted evangelic Tradition and the purity of the orthodox Faith and the Christian religion, or would seek to change anything by his opposing efforts, or would agree with those who undertake such a blasphemous venture."

    Offline Stubborn

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10307
    • Reputation: +4058/-962
    • Gender: Male
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 10:34:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Stubborn,  you seem to ignore the fact that the elected Pope, must be Catholic with a good willed intention to do as the past True popes have always done in order to be a valid election.  Divine Law

    You need to read this: The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita

     The author quotes the actual Masonic document, which both Pope Pius IX (1846-1878) and Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903) asked to be published. This document describes the Masons' diabolical strategy to destroy the Church by infecting her leaders with Liberal ideas. Tells how they do not desire a masonic Pope, but rather a Pope infected with their ideas. Touches on Liberalism, the French Revolution, Freemasonry, Ecumenism, Modernism, the modernist conspiracy at Vatican II, and much more! An eye-opening book that every Catholic must read!


    As I said, even if he is not pope, there is nothing anyone can do about it, if there was some thing someone could do about it, it would have been done 50 years ago. And because the dogma states we cannot get to heaven unless we are subject to him, I am not willing to risk my eternity on my opinion when everything we see with our own eyes testifies that he is pope - albeit a terribly rotten and heretical pope.

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline snowball

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 328
    • Reputation: +90/-122
    How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
    « Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 10:39:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • They try to claim that oath is not real (you can go to the "wikipedia"
    page and see)

    They say no evidence exists in the ceremonies of filmed cornonations
    that this oath took place.

    We have history books written by strong churchmen, but I doubt
    that the conciliar church can be trusted with the treasure trove
    of historical documents that fell on their laps.
    We may never know how many documents they may have
    destroyed.  How would we ever prove it ?



     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16