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Author Topic: How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?  (Read 9994 times)

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How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2016, 06:59:59 PM »
Per this conversation I removed the reference to the coronation oath.

Offline Stubborn

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How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2016, 07:29:16 AM »
Quote from: An even Seven
Quote from: Stubborn


But Ibranyi decided that there have been no popes since 1130 due to their heresies - who are we to believe, him or popular opinion? Besides that, Pope Pius X and Pope Pius XII made different rules.

Pius XII's Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis of 1945 states:
Quote
No Cardinal can in any way be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff on the pretext or by reason of any excommunication, suspension, interdict, or other ecclesiastical impediment whatsoever; We, in fact, suspend these censures only for the effect of an election of this sort; they will remain in their own force in other circuмstances....

....After this agreement has been furnished within a time limit to be determined by the prudent judgment of the Cardinals by a majority of votes (to the extent it is necessary), the man elected is instantly the true Pope, and he acquires and can exercise full and absolute jurisdiction over the whole world. Hence, if anyone dares to challenge the docuмents prepared in regard to any business whatsoever that comes from the Roman Pontiff before the coronation, We bind him with the censure of excommunication to be incurred ipso facto.

Which is to say that there is nothing to stop a heretical  cardinal from being elected a true pope.

I know very little about Ibranyi, but one needs only to Judge according to the Infallible Dogmas of the Church.

Ibranyi is a giant nutter whom I used as an example, a prime example of why it is not up to us to determine loss of office. Who is to say he is wrong and you are right? I assure you that for every teaching you have to support your opinion, he probably has 3 to support his.  



Quote from: An even Seven

I am sure you know what the term heresy means. As per the definition, there could be no such thing as an heretical Cardinal because  “For not every offense, although it may be a grave evil, is such as by its very own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.” (Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi)

With this in mind, this former Cardinal, having been severed from the Church, can not become Pope because “No one, therefore, unless in communion with Peter can share in his authority, since it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church.” (Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum)


But what about Pope St. Pius X and Pope Pius XII saying: No Cardinal can in any way be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff on the pretext or by reason of any excommunication, suspension, interdict, or other ecclesiastical impediment whatsoever;

They did not say "unless the excommunication is for heresy".





How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2016, 07:44:48 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn


But what about Pope St. Pius X and Pope Pius XII saying: No Cardinal can in any way be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff on the pretext or by reason of any excommunication, suspension, interdict, or other ecclesiastical impediment whatsoever;

They did not say "unless the excommunication is for heresy".





However, Stubborn in order for a man to be a Cardinal he must be Catholic in the first place, not some infiltrator.  BTW ... no wonder you defend Francis, you sound more like him when I read your replies.   "Who am I to judge"

Offline Stubborn

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How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2016, 08:16:31 AM »
Quote from: MyrnaM
Quote from: Stubborn


But what about Pope St. Pius X and Pope Pius XII saying: No Cardinal can in any way be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff on the pretext or by reason of any excommunication, suspension, interdict, or other ecclesiastical impediment whatsoever;

They did not say "unless the excommunication is for heresy".





However, Stubborn in order for a man to be a Cardinal he must be Catholic in the first place, not some infiltrator.  BTW ... no wonder you defend Francis, you sound more like him when I read your replies.   "Who am I to judge"


I don't defend pope Francis - he will be judged by God for what he did. The rest of your post makes no sense in light of Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis.


How can a true pope be an "enemy of the faith"?
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2016, 11:15:48 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn
...or other ecclesiastical impediment whatsoever;


What is an "ecclesiastical" impediment as opposed to some other type of impediment?