Author Topic: Home aloner position (Read 6087 times)

Centroamerica · « **on:** February 04, 2015, 07:59:55 AM »

Hats off to Fr. Cekada and Stephen Heiner for this episode that dissects the irrationality of the Home-alone position.

http://www.restorationradionetwork.org/season-4-trad-controversies-episode-1-home-alone/

"The body of canon laws prohibit any traditional priest from conveying and conferring sacraments so I want proper authorization. These people will say that I will simply stay home and I will practice my faith without reference to these sacramental actions. So these are kind of a resume of the position....."

Tridentine MT · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2015, 09:08:09 AM »

In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

Centroamerica · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2015, 09:11:20 AM »

Quote from: Tridentine MT

In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

If you listen, he defines clearly that the home-alone position is a rigorist-legalist position that is directed at traditionalist priest and groups. Fr. Cekada and also the SSPX have always affirmed that the Novus Ordo must be avoided.

Tridentine MT · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2015, 09:14:31 AM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

Quote from: Tridentine MT
In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

If you listen, he defines clearly that the home-alone position is a rigorist-legalist position that is directed at traditionalist priest and groups. Fr. Cekada and also the SSPX have always affirmed that the Novus Ordo must be avoided.

Agreed. So I take it that in my case I am forced to be a home-aloner until traditionalist priests remember the once-Catholic country of Malta and come here.

I hope that the Resistance will remember us.

Tridentine MT · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2015, 09:28:37 AM »

I found this article. Relevant extract below:

"The Home-aloner group has gone through an extraordinary (and very bad) transition from trying to create popes to giving up and declaring that Jesus Christ is shutting down His Church. For a number of years, prominent Home-aloner and Conclavist Ken Mock had travelled the countryside seeking some sufficiently untainted clergyman to be made into a pope. After one failure with Michael Bawden ("Pope" Michael 1), he had moved on to making another with Fr. Lucien Pulvermacher (a brother of Fr. Carl Pulvermacher and other priests), who declared himself to be "Pope" Pius XIII. Since he was not a bishop, rather than await the arrival of some bishop (somehow), he invented a way (so he thought) to make himself a bishop, so that he could then be a "Bishop of Rome." He had found some rare case when a mere priest had successfully ordained another man to the priesthood, and somehow thought that perhaps under such extraordinary circuмstances a priest might already therefore have the episcopal mark on his soul. Apparently, a priest could make another priest, but for a priest to make a bishop means that he is attempting to give that which he does not himself possess, something which is theologically impossible.

After this failure, Ken Mock began scouring Europe and the rest of the world seeking his "untainted" bishop, and as it has become clear to the Home-aloner community that there remains none such to be found who would also be willing to reconstitute the Church, this is why Home-aloners now claim that the Priesthood and the Sacraments (other than Baptism and Marriage which can be done by laypeople) are simply scheduled to disappear. They have closed in on themselves and vanished into heresy. As for the new "popes" themselves, their universal failure to provide credible alternatives to John Paul II has quite well demonstrated that the Conclavist approach will not work. But of course that stands to reason. With Vatican II on the books, it is impossible for any bishop to possess universal jurisdiction and with that the Papal charism of Infallibility. Some of them might possibly have made good popes had the office really been attained by them, but lacking Infallibility they have vanished into errors themselves, albeit far less serious ones than those held at the Vatican.

Ironically, though the home-aloner position is most often associated with sedevacantism, one of the main, if unacknowledged, intellects behind the home-aloner group is neither a sedevacantist, nor (strictly speaking) a home-aloner himself. This would be the Abbé de Nantes. Despite the value of some of his works in demonstrating the heretical nature of the new religion and its main proponents, the man himself has inexcusably become critical of Abp. Lefebvre and all other bishops and clerics who have heroically sustained the valid and lawful apostolic succession. Taking a grotesquely overscrupulous and pharisaical stance against performing any clerical function without Modernist Vatican approval, a number of young men in his group, though eminently qualified to serve as priests, go unordained. Thus his followers have been effectively neutralized against taking any positive constructive action in this crisis. If it were up to him, the very future of the Church itself would be held hostage by the Modernist heretics."

I want to clarify that I'm not a Conclavist and I recognise Archbishop Lefebvre as a true Bishop that the Catholic Church was lucky to have in these times. It's just that there are no traditional priests or bishops in Malta. All are ordained according to the post-Vatican II rite.

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2015, 10:19:07 AM »

Quote from: Tridentine MT

Quote from: Centroamerica
Quote from: Tridentine MT
In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

If you listen, he defines clearly that the home-alone position is a rigorist-legalist position that is directed at traditionalist priest and groups. Fr. Cekada and also the SSPX have always affirmed that the Novus Ordo must be avoided.

Agreed. So I take it that in my case I am forced to be a home-aloner until traditionalist priests remember the once-Catholic country of Malta and come here.

I hope that the Resistance will remember us.

Why can't you assist Mass here? http://greekcatholicmalta.com/

Tridentine MT · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2015, 12:08:43 PM »

Quote from: ascent

Quote from: Tridentine MT
Quote from: Centroamerica
Quote from: Tridentine MT
In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

If you listen, he defines clearly that the home-alone position is a rigorist-legalist position that is directed at traditionalist priest and groups. Fr. Cekada and also the SSPX have always affirmed that the Novus Ordo must be avoided.

Agreed. So I take it that in my case I am forced to be a home-aloner until traditionalist priests remember the once-Catholic country of Malta and come here.

I hope that the Resistance will remember us.

Why can't you assist Mass here? http://greekcatholicmalta.com/

This is what they say on that website:

"When they are not near a Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholics are permitted to receive the Holy Communion in Orthodox Churches; and the same is also extended to Orthodox when they are not near an Orthodox Church." (From the book The Thyateira Confession p. 69, written by His Eminence Athenagoras Kokkinakis, Orthodox Archbishop of Thyateira and Great Britain, published by The Faith Press, in 1975, with the blessing and authorisation of the Ecuмenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.)

"Επιτρέπεται εξ απόψεως Ρωμαιοκαθολικής να μεταλαμβάνουν εν καιρώ ανάγκης οι Ρωμαιοκαθολικοί εις Ορθοδόξους Εκκλησίας και οι Ορθόδοξοι εν καιρώ ανάγκης να μεταλαμβάνουν εις Ρωμαιοκαθολικάς Εκκλησίας." (Από το βιβλίο The Thyateira Confession σελ. 209, υπό του Σεβασμιοτάτου Αρχιεπισκόπου Θυατείρων και Μεγάλης Βρεττανίας Αθηναγόρου Κοκκινάκη - εκδόσεις The Faith Press - 1975, με την ευλογία και εγκρίση του Οικουμενικού Πατριαρχείου Κωνσταντινουπόλεως.)"

Hardly traditional ...

Centroamerica · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2015, 12:56:02 PM »

Quote from: Tridentine MT

Quote from: ascent
Quote from: Tridentine MT
Quote from: Centroamerica
Quote from: Tridentine MT
In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

If you listen, he defines clearly that the home-alone position is a rigorist-legalist position that is directed at traditionalist priest and groups. Fr. Cekada and also the SSPX have always affirmed that the Novus Ordo must be avoided.

Agreed. So I take it that in my case I am forced to be a home-aloner until traditionalist priests remember the once-Catholic country of Malta and come here.

I hope that the Resistance will remember us.

Why can't you assist Mass here? http://greekcatholicmalta.com/

This is what they say on that website:

"When they are not near a Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholics are permitted to receive the Holy Communion in Orthodox Churches; and the same is also extended to Orthodox when they are not near an Orthodox Church." (From the book The Thyateira Confession p. 69, written by His Eminence Athenagoras Kokkinakis, Orthodox Archbishop of Thyateira and Great Britain, published by The Faith Press, in 1975, with the blessing and authorisation of the Ecuмenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.)

"Επιτρέπεται εξ απόψεως Ρωμαιοκαθολικής να μεταλαμβάνουν εν καιρώ ανάγκης οι Ρωμαιοκαθολικοί εις Ορθοδόξους Εκκλησίας και οι Ορθόδοξοι εν καιρώ ανάγκης να μεταλαμβάνουν εις Ρωμαιοκαθολικάς Εκκλησίας." (Από το βιβλίο The Thyateira Confession σελ. 209, υπό του Σεβασμιοτάτου Αρχιεπισκόπου Θυατείρων και Μεγάλης Βρεττανίας Αθηναγόρου Κοκκινάκη - εκδόσεις The Faith Press - 1975, με την ευλογία και εγκρίση του Οικουμενικού Πατριαρχείου Κωνσταντινουπόλεως.)"

Hardly traditional ...

Certainly you seem to have a level head in this crisis. Keep the faith. 15 mysteries a day will bring you many graces. In prayers.

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2015, 01:03:48 PM »

Quote from: Tridentine MT

Quote from: ascent
Quote from: Tridentine MT
Quote from: Centroamerica
Quote from: Tridentine MT
In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

If you listen, he defines clearly that the home-alone position is a rigorist-legalist position that is directed at traditionalist priest and groups. Fr. Cekada and also the SSPX have always affirmed that the Novus Ordo must be avoided.

Agreed. So I take it that in my case I am forced to be a home-aloner until traditionalist priests remember the once-Catholic country of Malta and come here.

I hope that the Resistance will remember us.

Why can't you assist Mass here? http://greekcatholicmalta.com/

This is what they say on that website:

"When they are not near a Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholics are permitted to receive the Holy Communion in Orthodox Churches; and the same is also extended to Orthodox when they are not near an Orthodox Church." (From the book The Thyateira Confession p. 69, written by His Eminence Athenagoras Kokkinakis, Orthodox Archbishop of Thyateira and Great Britain, published by The Faith Press, in 1975, with the blessing and authorisation of the Ecuмenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.)

"Επιτρέπεται εξ απόψεως Ρωμαιοκαθολικής να μεταλαμβάνουν εν καιρώ ανάγκης οι Ρωμαιοκαθολικοί εις Ορθοδόξους Εκκλησίας και οι Ορθόδοξοι εν καιρώ ανάγκης να μεταλαμβάνουν εις Ρωμαιοκαθολικάς Εκκλησίας." (Από το βιβλίο The Thyateira Confession σελ. 209, υπό του Σεβασμιοτάτου Αρχιεπισκόπου Θυατείρων και Μεγάλης Βρεττανίας Αθηναγόρου Κοκκινάκη - εκδόσεις The Faith Press - 1975, με την ευλογία και εγκρίση του Οικουμενικού Πατριαρχείου Κωνσταντινουπόλεως.)"

Hardly traditional ...

I would attend a Divine Liturgy there first or ask someone who might know about it (IIRC, there's another Maltese member here). It's possible that it could be a very holy parish.

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2015, 01:46:21 PM »

Quote from: Tridentine MT

Quote from: ascent
Quote from: Tridentine MT
Quote from: Centroamerica
Quote from: Tridentine MT
In my country there are only Novus Ordo priests.

In this case, is a Home Alone position the right way?

If you listen, he defines clearly that the home-alone position is a rigorist-legalist position that is directed at traditionalist priest and groups. Fr. Cekada and also the SSPX have always affirmed that the Novus Ordo must be avoided.

Agreed. So I take it that in my case I am forced to be a home-aloner until traditionalist priests remember the once-Catholic country of Malta and come here.

I hope that the Resistance will remember us.

Why can't you assist Mass here? http://greekcatholicmalta.com/

This is what they say on that website:
[...]
Hardly traditional ...

The point is the Divine Liturgy there is certainly traditional, Catholic and valid. You can be present at the Divine Sacrifice. That should be your only concern, not some peripheral issue that has no bearing the Mass.

Matto · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2015, 01:51:48 PM »

Quote from: ascent

The point is the Divine Liturgy there is certainly traditional, Catholic and valid. You can be present at the Divine Sacrifice. That should be your only concern, not some peripheral issue that has no bearing the Mass.

My friend who is a sedevacantist usually goes to a Ukranian rite Divine Liturgy on Sundays, though sometimes he goes to Mass at my SSPX chapel. Even though the priests believe in Vatican II, their sacrifice is true and Christ is truly present. When I am traveling and have no access to an SSPX Mass or a resistance Mass, I have no problem going to a valid eastern rite Mass.

Tridentine MT · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2015, 02:01:19 PM »

I'm noting all your reasons whether I should go or not to Divine Liturgy.

Is it normal to have Divine Liturgy in a vulgar tongue rather than in Slavonic or Greek for example?

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2015, 05:26:28 PM »

Yes, especially probably for reasons relating to the diaspora and people unfamiliar to the Divine Liturgy. Most places will have two Divine Liturgies - one in the sacred tongue and the other in the vernacular. Others may combine the two.

Cantarella · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2015, 05:39:02 PM »

The Byzantine Eastern rites are beautiful, and very Catholic. Often times, they can be an oasis for traditional Roman Catholics who are fed up with the controversies or liberal abuses surrounding the Novus Ordo Mass or the ones who have not access to the Tridentine Latin Mass. Usually, the Ukrainian Rite is the most conservative form of the Byzantine Rite. Often, they serve it in an English translation that is not like the Novus Ordo translations. (In other words, it's good.) Most Byzantine Eastern Rite parishes in the US are Ruthenian. How "conservative" they are would largely depend on the priest.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2015, 07:50:34 PM »

Quote from: Tridentine MT

I'm noting all your reasons whether I should go or not to Divine Liturgy.

Is it normal to have Divine Liturgy in a vulgar tongue rather than in Slavonic or Greek for example?

Slavonic is (or was at one time) technically a "vulgar tongue" also, and so was Greek at one point, so it's a bit relative. I recall that St. Pius X wanted the Hungarian Byzantine Catholics to stop using Hungarian and switch to Greek. He gave them 2-3 years, or something like that, for the priests to learn it. But the deadline was extended due to WWI and then never enforced. Given that he gave them several years to convert over, he must not have considered it as something that was inherently evil or disordered. Slavonic was the vulgar tongue when Sts. Cyril and Methodius converted those peoples.

I also regularly attend Ukranian Catholic and Ruthenian Rite Divine Liturgies. I hesitate about the Maronite because it's rather Novus Ordoish in many ways ... since the Maronites have long mimicked Rome. On special occasions the Ruthenians will actually revert to Old Slavonic.

Quote

Finally, on 8 June 1912, Pope Pius X established the Eparchy of Hajdúdorog for the 162 Hungarian-speaking Greek Catholic parishes. He limited the use of Hungarian to non-liturgical functions, requiring the clergy to use Greek in the liturgy, but granted an interval of three years for the change of language to be effected. Because of the outbreak of the First World War, this interval was prolonged indefinitely, and use of Hungarian has continued.