Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Home - Aloneism  (Read 1209 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Home - Aloneism
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 11:30:15 PM »
There's no obligation to avoid priests who are allegedly "compromising on doctrine".  That's between them and God, at the end of the day.  None are required to effectively punish themselves on account of the priest, or, worse, punish their families, with deprivation of Sacraments on account of a compromising priest.
Would you apply this to the non una cuм issue?

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Home - Aloneism
« Reply #36 on: Today at 09:51:44 AM »
Would you apply this to the non una cuм issue?

Of course.  There's no priest who popes a name in the Canon with the formal intention of "I now profess this false non-Catholic religion."  To the extent the priest has offended God, that's between him and God.  St. Vincent Ferrer's Masses were not somehow forbidden, sacrilegeous, or displeasing to God because he was "una cuм" an Anti-Pope.


Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Home - Aloneism
« Reply #37 on: Today at 10:24:33 AM »
It would be protestantism, only if these things were decided by the Church. Unfortunately we only have guesses how to behave not a definitive ruling from the Church.
Exactly.  Sedevacantism is a "guess".  So is R&R.  None of us knows how to live in these times with CERTAINTY.  The only thing that is certain, is to be a Trad and avoid V2/new mass.  For that, we have doctrines and councils to follow.

Just to be clear, sedevacantism is an opinion.  You just admitted it.  Then, in your quote below, you contradict this and elevate the idea to something more.  That's the flaw.  R&R does the same thing.

Quote
There is something fundamentally wrong with saying Pope Leo is the Pope of the Catholic Church, but not following anything he says.
This is full of generalizations. 
1) There is also something fundamentally wrong with there being no pope for 60 years.  Heretic pope or no pope...Neither situation is "normal".
2) "Not following anything he says" implies that he's given orders which are direct, clear and with spiritual penalties.  That's debatable.  No V2 official has ever said, written or given a formal speech which said that catholics who reject V2/new mass are guilty of sin or are schismatic.  It's all optional.  There is no spiritual penalty for ignoring it all.
3)  Even sedes reject the new Holy Week, which Pius XII created.  He was a true pope and sedes don't follow him on that order. 

Quote
The only thing I am protesting is Pope Leo and I attend Masses the Saints would recognize, so how can that be Protestantism?

Naming Pope Leo in the mass doesn't change the mass' intention, nor make it unable for saints to recognize.  There are multiple liturgical experts who have explained (prior to V2) that the "una cuм" is NOT what sedes (i.e. Fr Cekada) said it means. 

Again, in history, there were MULTIPLE times were 2 or 3 popes claimed to be the true pope.  The 'una cuм' debate raged then.  There were saints ON BOTH SIDES of the debate.

Based on history and based on liturgical experts...it is categorically WRONG to claim that the 'una cuм' is a moral issue.  Anyone who makes this argument is uneducated or agenda-driven and guilty of many deceptions.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Home - Aloneism
« Reply #38 on: Today at 10:30:29 AM »
Yes, the generalizations have been the problem in the exaggerated dogmatic extremes.

SVs hold out for the Pope can't teach error to the Church, but to do that they have to exaggerate the scope of papal infallibility to near absurdity, but certainly to an extent that no actual Catholic theologian ever held.

R&R, on the other hand, claim that the 99% of the Magisterium that doesn't meet the notes of infallibility can in fact be complete garbage, take it or leave it, roll of the dice.

Both extremes entail grave errors.

Where this is resolves is that while the Pope can teach error here and there, when you get to a point where Catholics need to sever communion with the Holy See because they cannot in conscience submit to the using the Public Worship used by the hierarchy and where we consider the Magisterium to have been so thoroughly corrupted that it's no longer even generally a reliable guide (overall) to the faith ... the line has been crossed into rejection of the Church's indefectibility.

That's where I have said that both sides miss the forest of indefectibility for the trees of infallibility.