Author Topic: Holy Week Law of Pope Pius XII (Read 5912 times)

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #35 on:** December 17, 2013, 03:29:27 PM »

Genuine question to anyone who knows:

If Francis says this in an official way, what kind of heretic does that make him?

“We hold the Jєωιѕн people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked”.

If you write something as Pope through an "encyclical" (or apostolic exhortation, or whatever it is), that's heretical, what does that make one?

I would think that would be formal heresy.

2Vermont · « **Reply #36 on:** December 17, 2013, 03:42:27 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

Quote from: Ladislaus
Firstly, it's not even a simple slam-dunk case that Bergoglio is a heretic. If there's one thing I could get him on, it would be his rejection of EENS. Yet, ironically, most SV Traditional Catholics hold essentially the same position on EENS that Bergoglio does. Recall also that not every error = "heresy" in the strict sense, in the sense that would remove from the Church.

Secondly, when does heresy become manifest to an individual's conscience? Only by the intervention of Church authority. I've gone through the whole thinking on this subject only to have it ignored. Perhaps I can try again here.

Thirdly, there's the inconvenient matter of there being an entire school of thought contrary to the Bellarmine opinion which believe that papa haereticus deponendus. You bloat the Bellarmine position to the level of being practically de fide truth when it's just one opinion among many on a very thorny issue (as evidenced even prima facie by the range of opinions on the subject).

If it was THAT slam-dunk and straightforward, then why should there by five or six opinions on the matter by reputable theologians?

It's getting easier -- MUCH easier-- now, because of this:

Francis in Evangelii Gaudium n. 247: “We hold the Jєωιѕн people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked”.

Knowing that the Church cannot teach contradictions, there's absolutely no way in an official way, that a Pope can publicly teach this without being a heretic.

(1) Can someone post pre-VII teaching that says the covenant was revoked? I would not be surprised if this was Traditional teaching, but I don't think I've seen actual teaching on this.

(2) The bolded above: isn't this what is in the New Catechism?

New Catechism (paragraph 121): The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value,92 for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

Is this a new addition to the Catechism? Is it coming from VII? If so, then isn't this heresy a VII heresy and not specific to Francis? Isn't Francis just repeating VII teaching? Doesn't this then point more towards the heresy inherent in VII (which all of the post VII popes encouraged)?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #37 on:** December 17, 2013, 04:02:59 PM »

LOL. This thread has splintered into about 3 pieces. Perhaps we could split them apart or something.

I have to be out for a while, so I'll come back to it later.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #38 on:** December 17, 2013, 04:04:09 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

Genuine question to anyone who knows:

If Francis says this in an official way, what kind of heretic does that make him?

“We hold the Jєωιѕн people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked”.

If you write something as Pope through an "encyclical" (or apostolic exhortation, or whatever it is), that's heretical, what does that make one?

I would think that would be formal heresy.

Well, an encyclical would make the heresy public / manifest for sure :-). As to formal / pertinaceous, I'm not sure whether being in an encyclical makes a difference.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #39 on:** December 18, 2013, 11:23:51 AM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

Genuine question to anyone who knows:

If Francis says this in an official way, what kind of heretic does that make him?

“We hold the Jєωιѕн people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked”.

If you write something as Pope through an "encyclical" (or apostolic exhortation, or whatever it is), that's heretical, what does that make one?

I would think that would be formal heresy.

Correct.