Author Topic: Heresies of Vatican II (Read 13938 times)

Gregory I · « **Reply #95 on:** October 17, 2011, 01:28:08 AM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

No sede here can prove even ONE heresy contained in the texts of VCII. Not one.

They misinterpret the texts and then declare their own misinterpretation as heresy.

So what do YOU call this? From www.sedevacantist.org

"The separated churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from the defects already mentioned, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fulness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church." (Decree on Oecuмenism Unitatis Redintegratio, paragraph 3)

This contradicts a doctrine which has been repeated perhaps more times than any other by the Church and is unquestionably Divinely revealed. Only a single example of the magisterial teaching of the true doctrine is necessary and we select the following from the Council of Florence held under Pope Eugene IV (1441):

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the Devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with her..."

Caminus is trying to make the argument that The text here is indeed flawed, and erroneous and tending toward heresy, but not heretical in itself. I have to objections:

1. Those who keep company willfully with heretics and commune with them are themselves considered heretics. How does this not apply to ideas?

2. The HERESY here is the teaching that deficient heretical and schismatic church IN ITSELF, and AS SUCH is utilized by Christ as a means of salvation for souls. This is simply heretical, for it contradicts the teaching of the Church that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church ALONE are one and the same thing.

Life is not given to dead and cut-off members. Much less does God UTILIZE dead and defunct churches as means of salvation. He may call those within those Churches to repentance and conversion, but it is NOT through the instrumentality of the Heretical Church as an Heretical and Schismatic Organization AS SUCH. He may even speak through an heretical minister as he spoke through Annas the Jєωιѕн High Priest: Nevertheless, the occasion of instrumentality is not an ENDORSEMENT by the Spirit of Christ of the "church" as such. It is a momentary, perhaps irrepeatable, use of what God considers most expedient to get a person IN the Church: For he works all things with our salvation in mind, and there is NO salvation outside the Church.

Heresy.

Gregory I · « **Reply #96 on:** October 17, 2011, 01:29:06 AM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

Please, we've already been through the Islam thing. How many Pre-VCII Bishops signed Nostra Aetate? Were they all apostate modernists? Were they all completely ignorant of Church tradition, history, and doctrine? Or maybe, just maybe, do you misunderstand what Nostra Aetate is saying?

All you have done is slap quotes together in a post. You have not even started to attempt to show how there is heresy in that statement.

Abp. Pintonello Did not. He did not sign a SINGLE docuмent from Vatican II, that's a fact Jack.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #97 on:** October 17, 2011, 09:01:22 AM »

Quote from: Santo Subito

Please, we've already been through the Islam thing. How many Pre-VCII Bishops signed Nostra Aetate? Were they all apostate modernists? Were they all completely ignorant of Church tradition, history, and doctrine? Or maybe, just maybe, do you misunderstand what Nostra Aetate is saying?

All you have done is slap quotes together in a post. You have not even started to attempt to show how there is heresy in that statement.

This isn't just about Islam. My point is that Vatican II says all religions have a chance of salvation, when the Church originially taught that there is no salvation outside the Church. Read what the Saints of the Church said:

Quote

"No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church." -St. Augustine

Quote

"It is necessary for you to believe the Catholic Faith and to be baptized, as must every man in order to save his soul." -St. Catherine of Alexandria

Quote

"Hold most firmly and never doubt at all that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." -St. Fulgentius

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #98 on:** October 17, 2011, 09:45:46 AM »

Oh, please, Santo... you and the rest of the Conciliar sheep are just eating wherever you can find grass, not noticing that it has been sprayed with poison.

For well-nigh two thousand years now, the Roman Catholic Church has claimed uniqueness in faith, sole possession of the doctrines and graces necessary for salvation and continuity in Her authority. EVERY other 'christian' religion either rejects Her or tries to justify its existence by proving that they somehow possess, in fullness, at least one of Her marks.

The Anglicans still try to lean on the succession of bishops and/or priests; too bad, because their orders and sacraments have been dogmatically defined as invalid.

The Eastern Schismatics still have some valid succession, but Catholics, of course, are not to frequent their services, neither are they to partake of their sacraments except in rare cases of EXTREME peril in which it is otherwise not DIFFICULT or INCONVENIENT, but IMPOSSIBLE to procure a traditional Catholic priest. Those warnings, in this day and age, amount to almost total insignificance of even the presence of the Eastern sects in the world. They are a non-factor.

The average non-liturgical Protestant denomination is made from 'whole cloth', rejects sacramentalism altogether and has NOTHING to do with valid apostolic succession. Their doctrines and practices rest entirely upon private and subjective interpretations of Scripture from 'bibles' that have often been erroneously translated specifically because they wanted the text in English to reflect their theology. The Protestant denominations of the sixteenth century and later at least BEGAN with an idea towards so-called 'reformation'; the Prots today have no such agenda, not even among the Lutherans and Anglicans. Their goal today is self-preservation and the advancement of their theologies and liturgies.

These groups are ALL heretical. They either represent an intentional break from the Papal Authority or they represent a genesis IN anti-Catholic bias and laughably bad theology.

For Wojtyla, Ratzinger and their friends to associate with these people in their roles as religious leaders is bad enough, as if they had something to dialogue about except for the heretics to repudiate their errors against Holy Church and repent.

For these 'popes' to PRAY with heretics, FOR heretics and IN the buildings of heretics, along with their 'bishopesses', queer ministers and all the other errors, IS for these 'popes' to be guilty of heresy themselves.

Stop digging in the dung for nuggets of 'truth'... no one before Vatican II had any interest in promoting this false unity, heretical ecuмenism or illicit recognition of the so-called 'significance' of these Christ-deniers as 'means of salvation'.

St. Anthony of Padua, hammer of heretics, terror of Hell, pray for us.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Gregory I · « **Reply #99 on:** October 17, 2011, 07:04:53 PM »

I'll say it again here:

" But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?

(3) If, then, the Jews fail to know the Father, if they crucified the Son, if they thrust off the help of the Spirit, who should not make bold to declare plainly that the ѕуηαgσgυє is a dwelling of demons? God is not worshipped there. Heaven forbid! From now on it remains a place of idolatry. But still some people pay it honor as a holy place."

Saint John Chrysostom