Author Topic: Francis First Encyclical To Be Released on Friday: "Lumen Fidei" (Read 4143 times)

Nishant · « **Reply #30 on:** July 06, 2013, 04:44:34 AM »

Well, all in all, it was not as bad as it might have been. Still, a traditional Encyclical would have given more place to the relationship between faith and reason, especially since this is most often called into question today viz. natural theology, the revelation of God in the works of creation, the motives of credibility for belief in Christ, the harmony of reason and faith in assenting to revelation, the marks of the true Church etc. This was what Vatican I did, and it was reflected in the Oath against modernism.

Instead it traces the story of salvation history, beginning from Noah, Abraham and the patriarchs, through Moses, finally to Christ, the Apostles and the Church. It closes with an invocation of the Blessed Mother.

Still, there were some statements in the Encyclical that were heartening, in particular 48. that the deposit of faith is to be passed on in its entirety, that to distort one article of faith is to reject the whole etc. The statements on marriage 52. and the public and social aspects of faith 55. were also good. Nothing in the letter seemed blatantly unorthodox.

poche · « **Reply #31 on:** July 06, 2013, 05:48:07 AM »

"And then, I'm not real comfortable with "universal brotherhood", maybe because it sounds like the "Muslim Brotherhood". This part is in the SOCIETY section, as if the whole world is magically in the Church, and that's what God intended? But that's sorta NOT what God intended: separation of wheat and chaff... someone's got to be the chaff."
The idea of universal brotherhood is a traditional concept in the Catholic Church. You find it in the Book of Genesis, the Psalms, and the lives of the saints. This idea of universal brotherhood is what draws lower caste hindus to teh Catholic Faith. The fact that the Muslims have thisconcept of brotherhood is that they got it from us.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #32 on:** July 06, 2013, 07:56:34 AM »

Quote from: Nishant

Well, all in all, it was not as bad as it might have been. Still, a traditional Encyclical would have given more place to the relationship between faith and reason, especially since this is most often called into question today viz. natural theology, the revelation of God in the works of creation, the motives of credibility for belief in Christ, the harmony of reason and faith in assenting to revelation, the marks of the true Church etc. This was what Vatican I did, and it was reflected in the Oath against modernism.

Instead it traces the story of salvation history, beginning from Noah, Abraham and the patriarchs, through Moses, finally to Christ, the Apostles and the Church. It closes with an invocation of the Blessed Mother.

Still, there were some statements in the Encyclical that were heartening, in particular 48. that the deposit of faith is to be passed on in its entirety, that to distort one article of faith is to reject the whole etc. The statements on marriage 52. and the public and social aspects of faith 55. were also good. Nothing in the letter seemed blatantly unorthodox.

Modernists aren't blatant in the first place. They're obtuse and obscure. They use big words and long sentences to give the impression of profundity when they're really just being vague and suggestive. And they use the power of suggestion to lead people astray. They don't believe in dogma, so I wouldn't wait for one of them to come along and 'define heretical dogma' before you sound the alarm.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #33 on:** July 06, 2013, 07:57:59 AM »

Quote from: poche

"And then, I'm not real comfortable with "universal brotherhood", maybe because it sounds like the "Muslim Brotherhood". This part is in the SOCIETY section, as if the whole world is magically in the Church, and that's what God intended? But that's sorta NOT what God intended: separation of wheat and chaff... someone's got to be the chaff."
The idea of universal brotherhood is a traditional concept in the Catholic Church. You find it in the Book of Genesis, the Psalms, and the lives of the saints. This idea of universal brotherhood is what draws lower caste hindus to teh Catholic Faith. The fact that the Muslims have thisconcept of brotherhood is that they got it from us.

The concept of brotherhood is also masonic.

I doubt that His Humbleness means it in a Catholic way.

Geremia · « **Reply #34 on:** July 06, 2013, 09:53:28 AM »

Quote from: Nishant

Still, a traditional Encyclical would have given more place to the relationship between faith and reason

But Vatican I already did that! Let's move on! haha
Mention of the Angelic Doctor would've been good, too…
An explicit reiteration that faith is an intellectual assent to the revealed truths of God also would've been good, as that's the traditional definition of faith.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #35 on:** July 06, 2013, 12:48:33 PM »

Someone said, "at least it's not as bad as it might have been.

???

Well, I guess Pope Francis didn't say "everybody's truth is the truth so let's all get along with each other." So yeah, he didn't say that outright.

Popes take weeks, even months, to write, rewrite, put aside, and pore over for any possible error (grammatical or theological) when putting out an encyclical. So, nothing is in the encyclical without the authors and their proofreaders intending it to be. What I'm saying here is that nothing is "accidentally phrased vaguely and with a possibility for multiple interpretations".

The Post-Vatican II church and its adherents have really become accustomed to their idea of a pope saying things that sound nearly heretical, and almost like they are discussing a different faith, and these encyclicals from post-Vatican II popes are always banal and always wordy. They insist on using 1700 words to describe what can be described in 250. They use these words not because they lack any writing skills or terms of expression, but so that foreign concepts and new directions for the whole church can be inserted in an innoculous way.

This latest encyclical, co-authored by two, is rotten to the core.

I actually am looking forward to an encyclical written entirely by Pope Francis because I expect it will be a doozy.

poche · « **Reply #36 on:** July 06, 2013, 11:05:58 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: poche
"And then, I'm not real comfortable with "universal brotherhood", maybe because it sounds like the "Muslim Brotherhood". This part is in the SOCIETY section, as if the whole world is magically in the Church, and that's what God intended? But that's sorta NOT what God intended: separation of wheat and chaff... someone's got to be the chaff."
The idea of universal brotherhood is a traditional concept in the Catholic Church. You find it in the Book of Genesis, the Psalms, and the lives of the saints. This idea of universal brotherhood is what draws lower caste hindus to teh Catholic Faith. The fact that the Muslims have thisconcept of brotherhood is that they got it from us.

The concept of brotherhood is also masonic.

I doubt that His Humbleness means it in a Catholic way.

They got it from us