Author Topic: Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?  (Read 1235 times)

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Offline Adam

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Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
« on: April 05, 2010, 01:37:01 PM »
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  • I converted to the Catholic Church in '07. I am 18. Almost a year ago I stopped attending the NO Mass and attended the TLM exclusively with the SSPX. My father stopped going to Mass with me because he did not understand it. Both my parents now express a deep desire to go to the NO Mass at the Cathedral. I have talked to my SSPX priest, a friend who is about to enter the SSPX Seminary, and others about this dilemma but I still don't know what to do. I am simply looking for more input from fellow trads on this difficult situation.
    I am beginning to think that my parents becoming NO Catholics would be better than them remaining non-observing Protestants. At least once they are in the Church and have a basic understanding about the Mass I can explain the whole trad versus no situation and bring them to the TLM.
    As much as I have no desire to attend another NO Mass as long as I live, I want my parents to be Catholic more than anything on this earth. Even if they are NO Catholic...
    What do you think I should do?
    They will not go to the TLM with me because they do not have the Latin I do or any understanding of the Mass so they get nothing out of it. The NO Mass in English they are able to draw spiritually from. The Cathedral is the most reverent NO Mass in the Diocese (but it still has the EM's and Communion in the hand, etc, etc). I do not know what to do...I ask your opinion on my situation and I thank you in advance for your time.

    In Christ and Mary,
    Adam
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson

    Offline Alexandria

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 01:57:11 PM »
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  • Adam

    I think you have the right idea.  Once they have been exposed to the novus ordo, then you can set about explaining to them what happened.  Of course, there is always the possibility that they will feel quite comfortable with the novus ordo since it is basically protestant anyway.

    Are your parents in their thirties or forties?  They were raised protestant?  


    Offline Adam

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 02:07:24 PM »
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  • Yes, my parents are in their forties and were raised in a Protestant, anti-Catholic atmosphere. My SSPX priest told me that it would be compromising the Faith for them, but I think they might need to be brought to Tradition gradually. I was always drawn to vestments, liturgy, and the "smells and bells" which is what led me to Catholicism in the first place but all of it is very confusing to my parents.
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson

    Offline Raoul76

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 02:14:33 PM »
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  • Well there is the proof that the NO Mass is Protestantized.  Protestants feel right at home there.  

    You are doing the right thing ( except from my perspective, you should look into sedevacantism ) but I can see why your parents worry you.  They are hands-down REJECTING the Latin Mass after having been exposed to it, and are responding spiritually ( you say your dad has a "deep desire" to go to a VII Mass ) to ugly modernistic tripe.  That is not good.  

    But keep praying and be patient, and I will do the same for you and for them.  The best thing you can do is emanate a true Catholic atmosphere and attitude, and hope that eventually it clicks with your parents.  
    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 10:07:16 AM »
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  • Here's a good point of discussion.

    Have you thought of asking them whether the people before the Novus Ordo mess that couldn't read could follow what was going on?

    In other words, anyone that didn't understand Latin was going to Hell, or was a bad Catholic? No! Of course not. Only the educated could read and understand Latin, and the illiterate still were able to see the reverent beautiful actions of the priest in order to follow along with the Mass.

    The Mass being in Latin does not seem to keep them away from the true Mass, but Liberalism does.

    From Liberalism is a Sin:

    "It follows, therefore, that Liberalism denies the absolute jurisdiction of Jesus Christ, who is God, over individuals and over society, and, by consequence, repudiates the jurisdiction which God has delegated to the visible head of the Church over each and all of the faithful, whatever their condition or rank in life. It moreover denies the necessity of divine revelation and obligation of every one to accept that revelation under pain of eternal perdition. It denies the formal motive for faith, viz., the authority of God revealing, and admits only as much of revealed doctrine as it chooses or comprehends within its own narrow capacity. It denies the infallible magistracy of the Church and of the Pope, and consequently all the doctrines defined and taught by this divine authority. In short it sets itself up as the measure and rule of faith, and so really shuts out revelation altogether. It denies everything which it itself does not proclaim. It negates everything which it itself does not affirm. But not being able to affirm any truth beyond its own reach, it denies the possibility of any truth which it does not comprehend. The revelation of truth above human reason it, therefore, debars at the outset. The divinity of Jesus Christ is beyond its horoscope. The Church is outside its comprehension. The submission of human reason to the Word of Christ or its divinely constituted exponent is to it intolerable. It is, therefore, the radical and universal denial of all divine truth and Christian dogma, the primal type of all heresy, and the supreme rebellion against the authority of God and His Church. With Lucifer its maxim is: "I will not serve." "


    Liberals view the Catholic religion as intellectually sensible, and it's really a "bonus" that God revealed it. Therefore they believe it only because it makes sense to them, but not because God revealed it. That is why they're so comfortable saying that there is salvation outside the Church, because if they said there wasn't, they'd be including themselves since there is no real Faith there, but only an intellectual understanding.

    Hopefully you can pray for an increase in Faith on the part of your parents, and ask them...


    "Did the people that went to a Latin Mass 1000 years ago not understand what was going on? Most people back then couldn't read unless they were rich, and Our Lord said that rich men have a hard time getting to heaven because of attachment to the things of the world. Being attached to the (English language) is also being attached, because it's "easier" for you to understand it. It's not about what language the priest speaks in, or whether or not you can understand it. It's about what is going on up there, and what the priest is doing on YOUR behalf that means something. And until you get used to it, there is a missal you can follow along with that has (English) on one side, and Latin on the other."
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline Belloc

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 10:26:23 AM »
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  • Since the NO is a Prot version of Catholicism, understandable they are more comfortable with the NO, than the TLM.I agree, the NO could be a way to bringing them eventuall to Tradition.A step in drinking milk to solid food eating, if you will....not perfect, but a possible route...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Adam

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 11:04:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    Here's a good point of discussion.

    Have you thought of asking them whether the people before the Novus Ordo mess that couldn't read could follow what was going on?

    In other words, anyone that didn't understand Latin was going to Hell, or was a bad Catholic? No! Of course not. Only the educated could read and understand Latin, and the illiterate still were able to see the reverent beautiful actions of the priest in order to follow along with the Mass.

    The Mass being in Latin does not seem to keep them away from the true Mass, but Liberalism does.

    From Liberalism is a Sin:

    "It follows, therefore, that Liberalism denies the absolute jurisdiction of Jesus Christ, who is God, over individuals and over society, and, by consequence, repudiates the jurisdiction which God has delegated to the visible head of the Church over each and all of the faithful, whatever their condition or rank in life. It moreover denies the necessity of divine revelation and obligation of every one to accept that revelation under pain of eternal perdition. It denies the formal motive for faith, viz., the authority of God revealing, and admits only as much of revealed doctrine as it chooses or comprehends within its own narrow capacity. It denies the infallible magistracy of the Church and of the Pope, and consequently all the doctrines defined and taught by this divine authority. In short it sets itself up as the measure and rule of faith, and so really shuts out revelation altogether. It denies everything which it itself does not proclaim. It negates everything which it itself does not affirm. But not being able to affirm any truth beyond its own reach, it denies the possibility of any truth which it does not comprehend. The revelation of truth above human reason it, therefore, debars at the outset. The divinity of Jesus Christ is beyond its horoscope. The Church is outside its comprehension. The submission of human reason to the Word of Christ or its divinely constituted exponent is to it intolerable. It is, therefore, the radical and universal denial of all divine truth and Christian dogma, the primal type of all heresy, and the supreme rebellion against the authority of God and His Church. With Lucifer its maxim is: "I will not serve." "


    Liberals view the Catholic religion as intellectually sensible, and it's really a "bonus" that God revealed it. Therefore they believe it only because it makes sense to them, but not because God revealed it. That is why they're so comfortable saying that there is salvation outside the Church, because if they said there wasn't, they'd be including themselves since there is no real Faith there, but only an intellectual understanding.

    Hopefully you can pray for an increase in Faith on the part of your parents, and ask them...


    "Did the people that went to a Latin Mass 1000 years ago not understand what was going on? Most people back then couldn't read unless they were rich, and Our Lord said that rich men have a hard time getting to heaven because of attachment to the things of the world. Being attached to the (English language) is also being attached, because it's "easier" for you to understand it. It's not about what language the priest speaks in, or whether or not you can understand it. It's about what is going on up there, and what the priest is doing on YOUR behalf that means something. And until you get used to it, there is a missal you can follow along with that has (English) on one side, and Latin on the other."


    I have told them that it is really quite easy to follow along in the missal and that even though my knowledge of Latin helps greatly, the English is on the opposite page. I know what the priest is saying. I think it is more of a problem that my parents have no concept of what the Mass is. In their Protestant church all they did was sing three hymns, hear a sermon, read two scripture passages, and drink the grape juice and eat the cracker and left. The Mass is entirely new. I hope to lead them and educate them gradually about Catholicism. Even the NO Mass was intimidating the first few times I ever attended, I would have been completely lost at a TLM before I converted so I understand where they are coming from.
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson

    Offline Lycorth

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 11:39:20 AM »
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  • I agree that it is possible the NO will lead them to the TLM over time. There has been some good advice, here.

    Better to attend a NO Mass than no Mass, if you follow me. NO Masses are all we have available to us; the nearest TLM is far away. I bring as much traditional reverence as I can into Mass, and the priest/pastor of our church is thankfully a very reverent man who does not engage in monkeying around with novelties, so there is certainly hope that your folks can be led to the TLM via the NO Mass.

    God bless and good luck with it!


    Offline Belloc

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    Help. NO Catholic or Non-Observing Protestant?
    « Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 11:40:10 AM »
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  • Keep working with them, building up what they are learning and carefully steering them..
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

     

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