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Author Topic: Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!  (Read 1911 times)

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Offline CathMomof7

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I posted earlier this month for prayers for a friend of mine who lost her husband of 21 years.  She is one of my oldest and best friends and she is the person who really "introduced" me to Catholicism.  She lives far from me and when I converted years ago, I gave her a call to let her know.  She was pleased and it was as if we were like souls are something.  

Over the years, we had talked only occasionally as our lives are very different and we live pretty far apart, but we have still remained friends.

After her husbands death, I sent a card, a Catholic one.  I hoped to be a comfort to her and I wrote inside that our family had added him to our Rosary, praying for his time to be shortened in Purgatory.  I also included that I had asked for a Mass to be offered for him.  

Today, though, I got an e-mail, rather curt, telling me "I can tell you that he is in Heaven--I'm certain he got a direct flight."  She implied that I should pray for him but "do continue to pray for the rest of us."

I am very sad.  I really did not want to hurt my friend in this difficult time, but I am not sure how to approach this.

I sent back an e-mail apologizing for hurting her feelings.  I did say, however, that I would continue to pray for her husband's soul.

I'm thinking I will just leave this alone for now, maybe forever.

Any advice?


Offline s2srea

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Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 03:54:59 PM »
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  • Hmmm. You did nothing wrong CathMom. I can't tell if in her e-mail your friend is implying she was upset. You did say it was curt, but did she give any other indication.

    But yes, leaving it alone is probably a good idea. I don't think it needs to be forever, but perhaps your friend is extra sensitive after losing a husband.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 04:04:08 PM »
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  • She doesn't know for certain he is in Heaven.

    You did nothing wrong, CathMom. But leaving the issue along would be a good idea.

    God Bless.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Sigismund

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 09:45:03 PM »
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  • You certainly did nothing wrong, both from a Catholic and a social standpoint.  It might help to bare in mind that people can be quite irrational when they are grief stricken.  While I would never have reacted as you friend did to prayers for my wife's soul after she died, I did lay into a friend who offered a condolence that must have struck me as offensive in some way.  I say "must have" because I don't remember doing it.  My daughter, who was horrified, told me later.  I apologized profusely, and fortunately my friend was very understanding.

     I hope things eventually work out between you and your friend.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 10:25:20 PM »
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  • The problem Cathmom, sad to say, is that she doesn't have the same religion.  When dealing with NOs, we need to remember that what they are taught and what they believe, in the overwhelming majority of cases, is a different religion, so they are bound to think differently and take offense at the Catholic position.


    Offline Jim

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 10:41:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    The problem Cathmom, sad to say, is that she doesn't have the same religion.  When dealing with NOs, we need to remember that what they are taught and what they believe, in the overwhelming majority of cases, is a different religion, so they are bound to think differently and take offense at the Catholic position.


    While this is true to an extant, its not a "different religion" like the prots, schismatics, Jєωs, or pagans. The only reason non-traditionalists are non-traditionalists is because they have been led astray. If this were 1955 and Pius XII were still alive, this would not be the case.

    Offline Jim

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 10:42:52 PM »
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  • Because when each of us came over from the Novus Ordo, its not like we fully converted as if we were lutherans. We do mention things like "I've been a traditionalists since..." or "I have discovered tradition."

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 10:46:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jim
    While this is true to an extant, its not a "different religion" like the prots, schismatics, Jєωs, or pagans. The only reason non-traditionalists are non-traditionalists is because they have been led astray. If this were 1955 and Pius XII were still alive, this would not be the case.


    I disagree.  It really is a different religion.  If someone is offended at the thought of her loved one not going straight to heaven, at prayers offered to relieve suffering in purgatory, then that person doesn't believe what Catholics believe.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 11:11:18 PM »
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  • People say and do uncharacteristic things after the death of loved ones.  You did not hurt your friend.  She is just not in her right mind at present and you got a little scorpion sting for having prayed the holy Rosary.  May God bless you.  We should all have friends like you.



    Offline Jim

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #9 on: December 06, 2011, 01:25:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: Jim
    While this is true to an extant, its not a "different religion" like the prots, schismatics, Jєωs, or pagans. The only reason non-traditionalists are non-traditionalists is because they have been led astray. If this were 1955 and Pius XII were still alive, this would not be the case.


    I disagree.  It really is a different religion.  If someone is offended at the thought of her loved one not going straight to heaven, at prayers offered to relieve suffering in purgatory, then that person doesn't believe what Catholics believe.



    Tele,
    If the local Novus Ordinarian priest, clad in white vestments, with white draped over the coffin, proclaims "Now our friend is in a better place, in heaven," I don't think the average layman in the pew can be held accountable for believing the same thing. Now, if a traditionalist, someone who was a novus ordinarian and became a traditional Catholic, were to say this, willfully, not due to human respect etc., it would be probably heresy. A confessor, not me, should decide.

    I believe that those architects of the Novus Ordo, its Missae, spirit, letter, all of it, are truly responsible. Some laymen are too, God knows, not I. But many cardinals, bishops, clerics, and laity or not culpable. If the man I profess is the Supreme Pontiff gives me an order in regards to Faith and morals, in 1964-1970, I'm following it. In the early days of the Revolution, very few embraced an SSPX or sede position. Fr. Gommar de Pauw, Francis Schuckhardt, P. Joaquín Arriaga y Saenz, who knows who else.

    The reason the journey to Tradition has been difficult for some, myself included, is because what purports to be the hierarchy is giving orders, yet there is resistance, and later disobedience against said orders to what we know is right. Thats why almost everyone I know, family and friends, are not traditionalists like you or me. They may have disliked Vatican II, but went along with it. When all the priests, religious, bishops, and Pope are promoting these changes, one went with it. The sisters and priests who taught orthodox teaching just 5-10 years ago were promoting the V2 Revolution. Thats why my great-grandparents, one an orphan raised in a covent in the Philippines, another a Cristero in México, did not really resist V2. I think and would hope they missed the true Mass deeply, but it was only as "a preference," etc.

    Offline Jim

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #10 on: December 06, 2011, 01:28:42 AM »
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  • Tele,
    This interpretation of the crisis, from Don Floriano Abrahamowicz, is, I believe, completely reasonable. I and others may not agree with it entirely, or in part, yet I believe it makes sense.

    Quote


    When others accuse me or try to demonise me as being a sedevacantist, I reply that I refuse to call myself a sedevacantist, not because I am a “papist” in the sense of those who, while admitting that Benedict XVI is not Catholic, still affirm that he is pope. I insist on offering the following reflection and leaving the reader to reach his own conclusions.

    When Archbishop Lefebvre declared, at the conclusion and the end of his life, and therefore after long maturing his attitude towards that Rome which he was seeking right up until the consecrations, “the official Church does not represent the Catholic Church. (...) It is a puerile illusion to want to become part of it in order to convert it from within,” it seems to me that the problem he proposes goes far beyond that of the simple “sedes vacans”.

    The vacant see in the sense of the pope who by virtue of heresy ceases to be pope, was considered by the the theologians in the context of a Church which is normally Catholic. But today the problem – mysterious and apocalyptic – is different. Along with the “pope”, it is the orbis catholicus which no longer professes the Catholic faith, the body of bishops who are no longer Catholic, the faithful – even those who are in good faith – who are no longer Catholics. Ought we not therefore to understand that the problem today is therefore greater than that of the heretical pope? Perhaps this is one of the reasons why Archbishop Lefebvre dismissed the sedevacantist solution as “too simple”: the issue is much more complex. Then there is the fact that Josef Ratzinger, whether or not he is pope, is reigning in the Vatican – occupying it, usurping it, if you wish – but he is there, and the great mass of so-called Catholics find that acceptable.

    How are we to get through to them that he is not Catholic? How are we to get them to understand that they themselves are no longer Catholics? This may be the reason why Archbishop Lefebvre – finding himself up against such a tough problem – chose in all simplicity to content himself with building : schools, families and Catholic priests, denouncing openly the apostasy in tiara and cope and leaving history to judge definitively the “popes” whom he doubted to be popes and who, today, seem really to give every sign of no longer being so. Has the Society, today, still got the credibility to affirm such truths?

    Have not diplomacy and politics in the “disservice” of the combat of tradition made the salt lose its savour? God in his omnipotence can raise up other heralds of the faith. Perhaps some bishop who has been long since dreaming of converting from the oriental schism and heresy to Catholicism? Some precursor of the conversion of Russia? It is very important to admit the highly mysterious character of the present situation without seeking to rationalise the mystery of the general apostasy. Hence, beyond the See, it is the Church that is in a certain sense vacant while nonetheless remaining visible in her humanity and in her divinity wherever the faith is professed without compromise in fact with Modernist Rome.




    This is why I do not insist on sedevacantism, even though it may seem to be the only logical conclusion for Catholics such as you and myself. I know because I wasn't a sede until recently.

    God Bless Tele,

    it was nice to have a serious discussion on this, though, with serious Catholics. Another reason to be happy for Cathinfo.


    Offline TKGS

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #11 on: December 06, 2011, 06:43:44 AM »
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  • Please continue to pray for your friend's husband's soul.  They may be the only prayers that will ever be offered to ease his suffering.

    Offline CathMomof7

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 06:57:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth


    People say and do uncharacteristic things after the death of loved ones.  You did not hurt your friend.  She is just not in her right mind at present and you got a little scorpion sting for having prayed the holy Rosary.  May God bless you.  We should all have friends like you.




    Thank you Elizabeth.  

    I spoke to my husband about it last night.  He pointed out that I was being prideful  when I sent her this card.  I wanted her to know that I am a "good Catholic."  This was Our Lord's way of telling me how much he hates pride.  I will do better in the future.

    My friend is obviously upset of the loss of her husband and probably feeling guilty for being relieved that his suffering on this earth is over.  I also imagine it is difficult for her to accept that his soul is probably suffering pains now in Purgatory.  

    God will provide an opportunity for me to explain it all to my friend, one day.

    Thanks for everyone's advice and reassurances.  

    I do hope that this is a reminder, though, that NO Catholics really have many Protestant beliefs and ideas.  Going straight to Heaven because one suffers on earth, or because one is "nice," or because one loves Jesus so much, is a rejection of Catholic dogma and doctrine.  It is feel-goodism.  There hearts are hardened now, and any references to the Truth only cause them to become defensive, not hunger for more truth.  

    Offline JPaul

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 02:23:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    Quote from: Elizabeth


    People say and do uncharacteristic things after the death of loved ones.  You did not hurt your friend.  She is just not in her right mind at present and you got a little scorpion sting for having prayed the holy Rosary.  May God bless you.  We should all have friends like you.




    Thank you Elizabeth.  

    I spoke to my husband about it last night.  He pointed out that I was being prideful  when I sent her this card.  I wanted her to know that I am a "good Catholic."  This was Our Lord's way of telling me how much he hates pride.  I will do better in the future.

    My friend is obviously upset of the loss of her husband and probably feeling guilty for being relieved that his suffering on this earth is over.  I also imagine it is difficult for her to accept that his soul is probably suffering pains now in Purgatory.  

    God will provide an opportunity for me to explain it all to my friend, one day.

    Thanks for everyone's advice and reassurances.  

    I do hope that this is a reminder, though, that NO Catholics really have many Protestant beliefs and ideas.  Going straight to Heaven because one suffers on earth, or because one is "nice," or because one loves Jesus so much, is a rejection of Catholic dogma and doctrine.  It is feel-goodism.  There hearts are hardened now, and any references to the Truth only cause them to become defensive, not hunger for more truth.  



    Dear CathMom,

    Many good points are raised by this event.  It is objectively true that Conciliarism is indeed so removed from Catholicism as to be a separate and distinct religion.   It is very close to Protestantism and much more distant from the name which it claims.
     The majority of those who follow it have been misled or corrupted into its docrtinal propositions.  It is a grave scandal and is a great peril to those who believe it.  But the will and mind of its wicked creators is sadly accomplished in the mind and hearts of many millions of souls.

    But beyond that, you have done the normal Catholic thing which is appropriate.
    You friend's reaction was about the same as a Protestant's would be upon hearing the same thing.
    Perhaps you had some motivation of pride, but when a convert speaks to another "Catholic", it is normal to hope, that by seeing that you are now living the Catholic life, they might be comforted and happy that your conversion is complete.

    We and Conciliarist may use some common words, however, we speak different lanquages.
    If this gives you pause to reflect upon prideful motivations on your life, that is a good thing and a grace from God, but I would not be to severe in judging yourself when you simply performed a corporal work of charity to another.
    We do such by a deliberate act of the will to please God and to fulfill our duty to Him what ever our other motives might be.  Ask yourself, what was your true primary intention, to comfort your friend, or to please yourself?

    My money is on the first. After all did you not write this post because you felt sadness and compassion at maybe offending her?
    Be grateful to our Lord for giving you the chance to say what you said. (the truth)
    You do not know if that will come to the fore in her mind at some later and criticaltime.

    You did the proper Catholic thing. God Bless you for your compassion and love of your neighbor and your Holy Religion.

    JP

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Help! I really hurt my best friend, a NO Catholic, and I could use advice!
    « Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 04:17:48 PM »
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  • I agree with Telesphorus, the religion of the Novus Ordo is in fact a new religion. Let's look at some of the beliefs of the NO church and see if they are in line with Traditional Catholicism:

    -that Dogmas can "evolve and change" with each Pope
    -that the New Age is ok
    -that Latin is "too confusing" and that the Mass should be offered in the vernacular
    -that there is truth in all religions

    And that is only a few examples. There are many other non-Catholic beliefs that so many so-called Catholics believe today.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.