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Author Topic: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI  (Read 24227 times)

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Offline Sefa

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Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2022, 06:08:19 AM »
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  • Dogmatic non una cuм is straight from the pit of Hell and is a tool used by Satan to keep traditional Catholics from comingling or from the sacraments altogether.

    I've said this before, but, there is absolutely no historical or Magisterial basis for non una cuм. At all. It is a novelty dreamed up by Bp. Guerard des Lauriers and later catapulted by Fr. Cekada into the only "Catholic" position. Citing an early 19th century English Missal, John Daly noted that the King of England is also prayed una cuм in the Mass following the Pope and the Ordinary; proving that the intention is that the Mass is offered through the office of the one named, not the person. Otherwise, all English Masses would have been mortally sinful to assist at because the Anglican King of England was named una cuм.

    Furthermore, we have the Western Schism to look at as well. Where saints, such as St. Vincent Ferrer, supported the later-declared anti-Pope over the true Pope; therefore, meaning that he offered Masses una cuм an anti-Pope, and, by the logic of this position would have been offending God by committing a grave sin. Yet, as we know, St. Vincent was a great saint who was merely mistaken on the identity of the Pope, and therefore, was not at fault. One could retort that anti-Pope Benedict XIII was "orthodox" therefore nullifying any such comparisons between anti-Pope Francis and Benedict XIII. But this, too, is nonsense, as it either way, by their logic, the Masses said by St. Vincent would still be gravely sinful because a false Pope was named in the Canon.

    Therefore, to dogmatically declare that there is not only sin attached to assisting at a Mass una cuм Francesco, but even a mortal sin, is beyond the authority of those proclaiming it: namely, SGG and MHTS. It is correct to form an opinion on the Pope question, or even act on it individually, but to teach the laity that it would be a sin to attend an SSPX, or even SSPX-Resistance, Mass because they say it una cuм Francesco is divisive, diabolism.

    "And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."
    [Mark 3:25]
    What do priests pray at that part during sedevacante? Do they omit it entirely or just omit the name of the Pope?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #16 on: January 28, 2022, 06:29:07 AM »
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  • It's funny how over the decades since V2, the same old arguments, questions, opinions etc., keep coming up over and over again - as if the discovery or statements that some want to make are original, and/or have not already been addressed or hashed over a million times in the last 60 years.


    From, Who Shall Ascend?, published in 1992.....

    "....The divisive aberration of Sedevacantism is due to nothing else
    than certain priests' losing sight of their proper roles in our present
    malaise. To save the Church from an heretical pope was never their
    assignment. Securing the Apostolic succession of the Church was
    never their assignment. What was their assignment? It was to take
    care of the people whom God sent them as best they could, say their
    prayers faithfully, study and pray that they might not themselves fall
    victim to the spirit of Liberalism and worldliness, and keep their torment
    and speculations to themselves. The hierarchical structure of the
    Church and the papacy are not their business. Such high matters are
    the province of none other than Christ Himself and His Mother and
    the Apostles.

    What happened? Certain priests, having concluded that Pope
    John Paul II was not the true Pope of the Roman Church, began to
    communicate their fears and misgivings on the subject to others, particularly
    to laypeople, verbally and in writing. Why did they address
    their speculations to the people, who could not evaluate them? Why
    did they not discuss their thoughts with their fellow priests? Because
    Traditionalist priests do not get along with each other, and they will
    not abide disagreement with themselves. They communicated their
    conclusions to those who have learned that it is the better part of valor
    not to disagree with these oracles-if, that is, they wished to continue
    to receive the Sacraments from them.

    What happened? One step followed another in logical sequence.
    If John Paul II is not the true Pope, he does not deserve that I should
    pronounce his name in the Canon of the Mass. Someone else
    reasoned: If John Paul II is not the true Pope, who is? Why, Cardinal
    Sin, to be sure. Someone else concluded: Anyone who names Pope
    John Paul II in the Canon of Mass is a part of the Conciliar Establishment.
    Someone else ruled: It is a sin, a mortal sin, to include the name
    of John Paul II in the Canon of the Mass. Someone else warned: I will
    not give Communion to anyone who attends the Mass of any priest
    who names John Paul II in the Canon of the Mass. Where John Paul II
    rules the Church not at all, these petty pontiffs rule it with Calvinesque
    arbitrariness...."
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #17 on: January 28, 2022, 06:53:05 AM »
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  • I'm guessing it really boils down to the CMRI probably didn't take sides in their recent squabbles.

    I think it's time for us to end our subscription to True Restoration.

    Offline angelusmaria

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #18 on: January 28, 2022, 07:09:28 AM »
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  • . This issue is the one thing that never sat right with me, and it is because it isn't supported by Canon Law or Catholic teaching, yet is presented as such by +Sanborn, +Cekada, +Dolan and places like Novus Ordo Watch as essential to being a "true" Catholic (rather than a dreaded "semi-Trad")
    No you're not.
    Does Novus Ordo Watch actually belong in this grouping?  Mario Derksen gave a great talk at the most recent CMRI 2021 Fatima Conference
    please pray for me

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #19 on: January 28, 2022, 07:27:48 AM »
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  • Quote
    Dogmatic non una cuм is straight from the pit of Hell and is a tool used by Satan to keep traditional Catholics from comingling or from the sacraments altogether.

    I've said this before, but, there is absolutely no historical or Magisterial basis for non una cuм. At all. It is a novelty dreamed up by Bp. Guerard des Lauriers and later catapulted by Fr. Cekada into the only "Catholic" position. Citing an early 19th century English Missal, John Daly noted that the King of England is also prayed una cuм in the Mass following the Pope and the Ordinary; proving that the intention is that the Mass is offered through the office of the one named, not the person. Otherwise, all English Masses would have been mortally sinful to assist at because the Anglican King of England was named una cuм.

    Furthermore, we have the Western Schism to look at as well. Where saints, such as St. Vincent Ferrer, supported the later-declared anti-Pope over the true Pope; therefore, meaning that he offered Masses una cuм an anti-Pope, and, by the logic of this position would have been offending God by committing a grave sin. Yet, as we know, St. Vincent was a great saint who was merely mistaken on the identity of the Pope, and therefore, was not at fault. One could retort that anti-Pope Benedict XIII was "orthodox" therefore nullifying any such comparisons between anti-Pope Francis and Benedict XIII. But this, too, is nonsense, as it either way, by their logic, the Masses said by St. Vincent would still be gravely sinful because a false Pope was named in the Canon.

    Therefore, to dogmatically declare that there is not only sin attached to assisting at a Mass una cuм Francesco, but even a mortal sin, is beyond the authority of those proclaiming it: namely, SGG and MHTS. It is correct to form an opinion on the Pope question, or even act on it individually, but to teach the laity that it would be a sin to attend an SSPX, or even SSPX-Resistance, Mass because they say it una cuм Francesco is divisive, diabolism.

    "And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."
    [Mark 3:25]


    Well said. I have said many times in the past how Cekada's novel "Una cuм" construct was a convenient, selfish, self-serving device to "remove the competition" and make more income/money for himself and his chapel(s).

    What better way to "own" your parishioners, than by removing all other Masses as an option?

    It's diabolically brilliant -- and quite obvious.

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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #20 on: January 28, 2022, 07:47:03 AM »
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  • Does Novus Ordo Watch actually belong in this grouping?  Mario Derksen gave a great talk at the most recent CMRI 2021 Fatima Conference

    Derksen does great work, don't get me wrong, and he hasn't come out against the CMRI at all, but NOW does tend to promote the non una cuм novelty of Cekada and co.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #21 on: January 28, 2022, 07:50:51 AM »
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  • Well said. I have said many times in the past how Cekada's novel "Una cuм" construct was a convenient, selfish, self-serving device to "remove the competition" and make more income/money for himself and his chapel(s).

    What better way to "own" your parishioners, than by removing all other Masses as an option?

    It's diabolically brilliant -- and quite obvious.
    I forget which video it was, but I also recall +Sanborn railing about tithing in his chapels stating how much they must contribute based on their income. His example was $800 a month for someone that makes $50k/year. I don't know about some of you, but, I make a little more than that as our household income as the sole breadwinner as of late, and certainly wouldn't be able to meet $800 a month in tithes.

    That was a big red flag for me.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #22 on: January 28, 2022, 08:16:31 AM »
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  • Derksen does great work, don't get me wrong, and he hasn't come out against the CMRI at all, but NOW does tend to promote the non una cuм novelty of Cekada and co.
    I think you have to post where he states attendance at an una cuм mass is a sin.  Although he certainly doesn't encourage assistance at an una cuм mass, I don't believe he has ever gone as far as stating to do so would be a sin.  He's probably more in line with the CMRI's position.  


    Offline PAT317

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #23 on: January 28, 2022, 08:24:35 AM »
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  • I forget which video it was, but I also recall +Sanborn railing about tithing in his chapels stating how much they must contribute based on their income. His example was $800 a month for someone that makes $50k/year. I don't know about some of you, but, I make a little more than that as our household income as the sole breadwinner as of late, and certainly wouldn't be able to meet $800 a month in tithes.

    That was a big red flag for me.

    A "tithe" has always been understood to be 10%.  10% of $50,000 is $5000, which comes to $417/month.  Where in the world did he come up with $800?  [And I suspect many people might have difficulty meeting $400+ per month.] 

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #24 on: January 28, 2022, 08:36:48 AM »
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  • A "tithe" has always been understood to be 10%.  10% of $50,000 is $5000, which comes to $417/month.  Where in the world did he come up with $800?  [And I suspect many people might have difficulty meeting the $400+ per month.] 
    Maybe the video should be provided.  I wonder whether this was in reference to making a lump sum donation to help fund the new seminary building.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #25 on: January 28, 2022, 08:37:28 AM »
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  • Maybe the video should be provided.  I wonder whether this was in reference to making a lump sum donation to help fund the new seminary building.
    Yeah, if I remember which video it was I will post it
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #26 on: January 28, 2022, 09:18:15 AM »
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  • Derksen does great work, don't get me wrong, and he hasn't come out against the CMRI at all, but NOW does tend to promote the non una cuм novelty of Cekada and co.
    Mario Derksen attends a CMRI chapel.  I've not seen this promotion of the "non-una cuм novelty of Father Cekada and co." on Novus Ordo Watch.  I think you may be confusing the position of Novus Ordo Watch with the people who post comments.  He is most definitely against the Novus Ordo and believes that the sedevacantist position is the correct position, but, as far as I can tell, his doctrinal positions on this matter pretty much mirror those of Bishop Pivarunas and the CMRI.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #27 on: January 28, 2022, 09:26:01 AM »
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  • Mario Derksen attends a CMRI chapel.  I've not seen this promotion of the "non-una cuм novelty of Father Cekada and co." on Novus Ordo Watch.  I think you may be confusing the position of Novus Ordo Watch with the people who post comments.  He is most definitely against the Novus Ordo and believes that the sedevacantist position is the correct position, but, as far as I can tell, his doctrinal positions on this matter pretty much mirror those of Bishop Pivarunas and the CMRI.
    That very well could be the case, I'm sure I'm mistaken. Mea culpa
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline angelusmaria

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #28 on: January 28, 2022, 11:56:22 AM »
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  • That very well could be the case, I'm sure I'm mistaken. Mea culpa
    No problem.  I know that the CMRI chapel Mary Immaculate Queen always links and updates with NOW articles.
    please pray for me

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
    « Reply #29 on: January 28, 2022, 03:59:43 PM »
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  • The CMRI’s laxity on this issue is only more troubling when compounded by their permissiveness in the creation of annulment tribunals. The SSPX has engaged in this sham for years, but it has been known for some time that some of the CMRI’s priests engage in the judging of marriage cases. But this is something that falls directly under the legal functions of the Church and does not fall under epikeia. No one currently possesses the authority to issue judgments in these marriage cases and so the best our clergy can do is investigate to give someone some sense of probability, but no more than that.
    In any case, the fact that even as late as 1968 there were only 338 annulments given for the entire United States that year should give helpful context in this regard.
    In our unfortunate situation, there is an easy and effective way for these people to solve their marital dilemmas: abstinence and chastity.  One should not risk a “re-marriage” if one’s “previous” marriage is doubtful or probably invalid.
    .
    This is another accusation I've seen thrown around on the internet, but I do not recall seeing any evidence for it.