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I am pretty sure the crisis can be boiled down to facts, but such a thing should be done and has, to a large extent, been done by learned priests, by those who've been commissioned and whose job it is to explain it to the sheep - Fr. Hesse is one, Fr. Wathen is another.

And there are a handful of others I could name who were around for the start of the revolution and answered many of the exact same questions and concerns decades ago that many folks still have today. I just figure, folks didn't listen then and still wont listen even today, which helps explain why many are still asking many of the same questions 60 years later.

+ABL, like most (not all) back then (and still even today) disbelieved that which they could not deny, which helps explain why +ABL never said what Fr. Wathen correctly said. Personally, I am of the opinion that +ABL very well could be a saint in heaven right now, but he made some mistakes - one of which was being weak on EENS which to some extent at least, shows in his SSPX to this day.

Anyway, our use of reason asks - why the fifth column at all if not to deceive the people into a false religion with sacrilegious worship - which is undeniably happening - if not to lead the people toward hell?
 

Yes, +ABL could have been wrong regarding EENS and other things. That doesn't mean that all else that he believed is suspect. He tended towards prudence, and prudence for many trads, unfortunately,  is synonymous with weakness. I'm a great admirer of Fr. Hesse, and the thinking of Fr. Hesse was probably more in line with +ABL than Fr. Wathen.

Fr. Hesse, Fr. Wathen, and +ABL had somewhat differing takes on the Crisis. I suppose we have to more or less choose one position, and discount the rest (for us non-sedevacantists, anyway). I'll still take +ABL over Fr. Wathen, though I believe the latter was well-intentioned.

I am under no illusion that this will be received in the same, kind spirit with which I write.  So be it.  I pray that it is.

Your response seems to reveal that you might be wiser to learn a good deal more about the different responses to the unprecedented crisis regarding Holy Church if you desire to wisely and profitably contribute to specific discussions.  It is always helpful to understand one's opponents, if you will, as thoroughly as possible.

You might also refrain from being surprised (dare I say feigning surprise?) that most human beings are somewhat-less-than perfect.  Your skin seems rather thin at times, which can also make life around here (or anywhere and everywhere in this world) uncomfortable.

I know, the problem is everyone else; it always is, ins't it?  [FWIW, a good many priests in these evil days absolutely deserve to be bashed and worse.  We are not in this situation because modern clerics are doing a wonderful job.]

I read your response with no feeling whatsoever. I am perfectly capable of taking emotions out of any equation and simply using my brain (er logic), so thanks for your post, and be chill. It's all good, and I am perfectly capable of walking away or not logging in. There is no addiction or need for validation from anybody, and life will go on whether I choose to spend time here or not. For some people of a certain age-bracket, perhaps, THIS IS their only "outlet." And if that is the case for some people, I can show empathy towards them to some degree. So I understand that and am not knocking them for that, per se. Loneliness tends to intensify as a person ages, and that is a fact of life as friends and loved ones die off, mobility decreases, and so on.

Anyway, I am not here to come up with reasons why people remain here for years on end. Which is kind of funny, because people of a certain age will know and understand and very well remember what people did  BEFORE the Internet--we wrote letters, had pen-pals we would never usually meet, sent cards, used rotary telephones, and sat on the porch and talked with neighbours, and kids played hockey in the street and yelled, "Car!" Ah, the good old days. Anyway...

Many of the people here are garden-variety stuck-in-the-mud types-ain't-going-nowhere-no-matter-what-folks. THEIR MINDS ARE SET, PERIOD. I will not be the one to change their mind in 99 3/4% pure of the cases--let's see if anyone gets that joke.

Actually, you fail to see, or understand the problem. For the umpteenth time, for the slow learners here, many "docuмents" or what-not are over my head. Capiche? I can read medical textbooks or car repair manuals all day long and get more understanding of them. 

I don't have the necessary Theology background and such to understand many of the "Liturgical Docuмents," etc. 

This not some game of Risk or Battleship that I am playing. I can play and win those no problem. This is about *remaining within the Catholic Church, period.*

All Priest bashing does is SET A BAD EXAMPLE, PERIOD. Get off your butts and PRAY MORE for ALL PRIESTS, and stop bashing them, period. PRAY for the PRIESTS THAT ARE OLD, SICK, DYING, YOUNG, EVIL, CONFUSED, SAD, MENTALLY WORN OUT, and so on.

In short, shut the H up, and instead of posting a Priest bash--post a prayer for one instead! 

****I would love to know HOW MANY PRIESTS are actually members here? One? Two? Twenty? Fourty?****I will never know, but they can all be assured that at least one member is praying for them and trying to stop the absolute terrible bashing and judgment going on, etc. 

We are not supposed to repay evil with evil, so stop making excuses for bashing clerics, and FIX the problem with PRAYER! Most Priests do not have enough people praying for them on their good days, never mind when they have run afoul.

See, what "group do you align with?" Exactly what I have been saying. Every new person here has to be slotted into some box or category so the rest of the group can approve or not and therefore bash accordingly.

Btw, since you are on this thread and I am thinking of it, there is irony in the fact that you are trying to judge people by classifying them. But please keep in mind, that I am quite certain there is at least one member here (obviously not me) that would still consider you a Jєω, even if you have converted to the Catholic Faith. In other words, if you were to walk down the street, they would judge you by appearances alone based on your phenotype. No, they don't have your DNA, thanks God, but that would not stop them from possibly doing harm to you.

Just go back and read some of the trash threads here and see the absolute HATRED for Jєωιѕн people. It is not hard to figure out.

So please keep yourself safe down there in the CRAZY White-Nationalist-White-Supremacist USA, and keep your wits about you. There ARE people going around the Internet taking notes about ALL Jєωιѕн persons with the intentions of doing harm, or making their lives miserable.

If you don't want to be judged, stop judging others. You may have converted to the Catholic Faith (which is awesome), but some people are still blind and would see you as a Jєω. They only consider the White Race as superior. Blacks and Jєωs (or any other ethnicity) don't cut it.

Learn self-defense, carry pepper spray or whatever, but just recognize the harsh reality. God bless you, Anne
P.S. And it's okay if you were "done with me" before. I forgive you. Gotta go for now.

No judgement from me.  I was just trying to figure out where Jupiter stood on the Crisis.  If you would spend the time learning about the various positions, you'd understand why I asked him that question. You may have noticed that he didn't feel judged.  But thanks for judging me, Anne. Just remember when you point one finger, there are three pointing at you.

As for my being Jєωιѕн convert, I know for a fact that that member does not feel that way about me.  You should do more reading/listening than writing/talking.  That is if you're really planning on sticking around. Or if you're going to go off in a huff again....only to return again.  Repeat ad nauseum.