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Author Topic: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI  (Read 42831 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
« Reply #135 on: January 30, 2022, 09:41:49 AM »
It's a mystery that we cannot really boil down to absolute facts. The conciliar church isn't exactly the True Church, but it's not completely separate either.

As +ABL said, the modernists and conciliar church occupy the True Church. No one is required to believe this here, but some of us do. In this situation, we have to assume that the True Church is still in Rome, but currently occupied. But what does occupation mean?
Although I believe it can be done, I don't believe we lay people are meant to boil it *all* down to absolute facts.

 It should be enough for us to know that the conciliar religion is not only not Catholic, it is anti-Catholic, this cannot be denied. Knowing this, is knowing that we should avoid everything that has anything to do with it. The reason so many choose to disbelieve that which they cannot deny, is due to their lack of conviction as a result of a lack of faith.

+ABL was right, the modernists and conciliar church do occupy the True Church, Fr. Wathen puts it like this:

"...the Conciliar Church is not the Catholic Church, though it is within it, like a fifth column. Hence, no one who
maintains membership within it can be saved..."


What is a "fifth column?"
Wiki puts it like this:
"A fifth column is any group of people who undermine a larger group from within, usually in favor of an enemy group or nation. The activities of a fifth column can be overt or clandestine. Forces gathered in secret can mobilize openly to assist an external attack." - describes the situation accurately imo.

Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
« Reply #136 on: January 30, 2022, 12:44:45 PM »
I do not think that Vatican II is a valid ecuмenical council of the Roman Catholic Church.

That being said, as I mentioned in my response to RomanTheo, the primary issue of our current crisis is not Vatican II. This council can be interpreted in a way, commensurate to the machinations that gave birth to it, that is in continuity with Tradition due to the very ambiguous nature of its docuмents which were engineered to create weaponized nebulosity.

The primary issue, rather, is that the post Vatican II “Popes,” ecclesiastical hierarchy, theologians, monastic orders, and the vast majority of the laity have apostatized completely from the Catholic faith.
No, it's not ambiguous. And if it's just ambiguous then why can't it be a valid ecuмenical council of the Church? Pseudo pope Benedict XVI said it could be interpreted in the light of Tradition too.


Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
« Reply #137 on: January 30, 2022, 12:53:47 PM »
No, it's not ambiguous. And if it's just ambiguous then why can't it be a valid ecuмenical council of the Church? Pseudo pope Benedict XVI said it could be interpreted in the light of Tradition too.

Kindly read Alberigo’s 5 Volume History of Vatican II alongside the entirety of the docuмents of Vatican II and their official Latin Relatio then come back and we can discuss this more fruitfully.

It’s not a valid ecuмenical council of the Church because it was convoked, ratified, and closed by two heretics, namely John XXIII and Paul VI then interpreted in discontinuity with Church teaching and Tradition by John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis I.

Benedict XVI’s hermeneutic of continuity is an abstract intellectual exercise removed from the realities of the situation, not due to the docuмents of the council per se, but due to the post-conciliar ecclesiastical situation.

Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
« Reply #138 on: January 30, 2022, 01:01:30 PM »
Kindly read Alberigo’s 5 Volume History of Vatican II alongside the entirety of the docuмents of Vatican II and their official Latin Relatio then come back and we can discuss this more fruitfully.

:laugh2:  In the real world this is called a Jackass Response.  Jupiter: another pseudo-intellectual tool-bag.

Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Heiner/TR attacks CMRI
« Reply #139 on: January 30, 2022, 01:03:01 PM »
Benedict XVI’s hermeneutic of continuity is an abstract intellectual exercise removed from the realities of the situation, not due to the docuмents of the council per se, but due to the post-conciliar ecclesiastical situation.

This is particularly rich.  Pot, meet kettle. :fryingpan: