Author Topic: Has BXVI fulfilled one of the two "conditions" of Bp. Fellay? (Read 1415 times)

gladius_veritatis · « **on:** July 11, 2007, 12:10:06 PM »

Has Bp. Fellay said anything about this "liberalization" of the TLM meeting one of his two "conditions"?

If it does meet that condition, all that is necessary is the excommunication business.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2007, 12:56:00 PM »

Actually the "two conditions" are more accurately described as 'two pre-conditions." If I understand Bishop Fellay, correctly two pre-conditions must be met before the Society will even come to the negotiation table. One condition seems to have been met by the Motu Proprio, i.e. permitting all Roman priests to say the old Latin Mass, at least privately. The second condition, that of lifting the "excommunications" has yet to be fulfilled. One has to wonder why they were not lifted in the MP. More Vatican game playing, I guess. Believe me, there is no way that the sspx apostolate will be folded into every day diocesan life unless every 'i' is dotted and every 't' is crossed. That means going back into the V2 docuмents and plowing through them meticulously. That means, also, I think, dumping a whole bunch of heretic, apostate bishops.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2007, 03:52:16 PM »

You are correct, Hollingsworth, but since when do Catholics "negotiate" with the man they call Papa?

It is not the SSPX's job to "meticulously" go over the V2 docuмents, etc. It is their Papa's job to tell them what the docuмents mean; they must accept his authoritative interpretation.

As for the "dumping" of heretics and apostates, the so-called 'Papa' would be a great place to begin.

Trinity · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2007, 05:39:09 PM »

Oooooooh....you are a hard nose, Veritatis! :roll-laugh1:

hollingsworth · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2007, 02:20:17 PM »

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since when do Catholics "negotiate" with the man they call Papa?

I can not immediately supply an historical precedent for this, but I think future negotiations by SSPX with Rome will nevertheless occur. Either that, or Rome simply hunkers down and cleans house on her own in conformance with all, or most of what SSPX and others demand.

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It is not the SSPX's job to "meticulously" go over the V2 docuмents, etc.

It may not be SSPX's "job" as such. the V2 docuмents must be revisited, particularly ones like Nostra Aetate and Lumen Gentium Traditional Catholics of all stipes will not let those docuмents go unrevised, whoever those entities may be who are active in the revision.

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It is their Papa's job to tell them what the docuмents mean; they must accept his authoritative interpretation.

Thus far they do not accept his authoritative interpretation, or am I missing something?

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As for the "dumping" of heretics and apostates, the so-called 'Papa' would be a great place to begin.

The only word I dispute in that remark is "so-called." And after they're finished with Benedict, they need to turn their attention to his predecessors, particularly the one called "Great."

Clodovicus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2007, 03:18:28 PM »

It was more along the lines of three conditions:
1. Liberalisations of the TLM.
2. Resolutions concerning V2's understanding of ecuмenism.
3. Lifting of excommunication.

Two of these have so far been met, either in whole or in part.
1. Motu Proprio liberalising the TLM.
2. Latest docuмent on the Church's doctrine on the Church.

The latter being a middle ground for the NO and SSPX.

Rabbi Ratzinger has now offered the SSPX three options:
1. Join the bogus ordo darkside.
2. Reject the darkside and become Sedevacantist.
3. Strattle the fence and remain schismatic.

Those are the choices that the SSPX faces.
The battle lines are being drawn, whose side will the SSPX fight for?

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2007, 11:13:41 PM »

Quote from: Clodovicus

Rabbi Ratzinger has now offered the SSPX three options:
1. Join the bogus ordo darkside.
2. Reject the darkside and become Sedevacantist.
3. Strattle the fence and remain schismatic.

Those are the choices that the SSPX faces.
The battle lines are being drawn, whose side will the SSPX fight for?

Let it be noted that Clodovicus is a sedevacantist and repudiates Pope Benedict XVI as a valid pope.

Ok, now can you cease showing such a lack of charity to -- let's agree on this at least -- a human being, created in God's likeness? The Catholic Faith (which you profess) teaches that Jesus Christ prefers that Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger) will enjoy the beatific vision for eternity (and so glorify His mercy) rather than burn in hell to glorify His justice. The same is true for each of us -- but we must, of course, correspond with His grace. At any rate, we are not allowed to hate any living human being. The contempt you spew at "Rabbi Ratzinger" seems to betray a hatred for the man. I sincerely hope that is not the case.

In answer to your question, I am sure the SSPX leadership has a deep enough love of God (and consequently, a deep enough spiritual life) that they will receive the lights necessary to lead their portion of the flock -- whatever happens in the future.

In Christ,

Matthew

Clodovicus · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2007, 10:29:53 AM »

Author Topic: Has BXVI fulfilled one of the two &quot;conditions&quot; of Bp. Fellay? (Read 1415 times)

Author Topic: Has BXVI fulfilled one of the two "conditions" of Bp. Fellay? (Read 1415 times)