Author Topic: Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?  (Read 953 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Has a Pope ever encouraged, such as in an official letter or audience, separated spouses to strive toward reunion?

(cf. the related Christianity StackExchange thread.)
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Offline Geremia

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Offline Geremia

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Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2015, 11:27:07 PM »
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  • According to the only movie made on Pope St. Pius X, Gli Uomini Non Guardano Il Cielo (@37:52 f.), when he was patriarch, he privately visited the countess of Venice, who had undergone a secret divorce. He encouraged her to embrace her cross and reunite with her husband, even if he was "un cattivo marito" ("a bad husband"), in order to lead him to Christ.

    Does anyone have another source to verify that Pope St. Pius X did in fact visit the countess?

    For those who know Italian, here is the scene:
    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/_ekKxK8ZGDk[/youtube]
    It is my favorite scene of this 1½ hour film.
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    Online poche

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 12:06:01 AM »
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  • I remember when Vincente Fox, the then president of Mexico made a state visit to the Vatican and met with Pope John Paul II and asked him about his annulment situation. His Holiness replied that the Church does not do annulments for heads of state. He also recommended an attempt at reconciliation.

    Offline Geremia

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 12:32:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    I remember when Vincente Fox, the then president of Mexico made a state visit to the Vatican and met with Pope John Paul II and asked him about his annulment situation. His Holiness replied that the Church does not do annulments for heads of state. He also recommended an attempt at reconciliation.
    That's interesting. Do you have any sources backing up your statements? thanks
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    Online poche

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #5 on: October 16, 2015, 01:45:24 AM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: poche
    I remember when Vincente Fox, the then president of Mexico made a state visit to the Vatican and met with Pope John Paul II and asked him about his annulment situation. His Holiness replied that the Church does not do annulments for heads of state. He also recommended an attempt at reconciliation.
    That's interesting. Do you have any sources backing up your statements? thanks

    I don't have any internet sources. I only have my memory. I remember that Vincente Fox was a divorced man when he was elected to the presidency. At that time the Church was attempting a reconciliation but he filed for an annulment. While he was president he civilly married his then girlfriend, Marta Sahagun, another divorce. It was publicly announced over the Spanish language media that Marta Sahagun got her annulment first. Then after his presidential term was over Vincente's annulment went through. Then after the annulments for both parties went through they were married in a religious ceremony. These are the events as I recall them.

    Offline Nadir

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #6 on: October 16, 2015, 05:49:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: poche
    I remember when Vincente Vicente Fox, the then president of Mexico made a state visit to the Vatican and met with Pope John Paul II and asked him about his annulment situation. His Holiness replied that the Church does not do annulments for heads of state. He also recommended an attempt at reconciliation.
    That's interesting. Do you have any sources backing up your statements? thanks


    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/29/world/john-paul-says-catholic-bar-must-refuse-divorce-cases.html

    I'm looking forward to viewing that movie. Thanks!

    Offline TKGS

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #7 on: October 16, 2015, 06:49:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: poche
    I remember when Vincente Fox, the then president of Mexico made a state visit to the Vatican and met with Pope John Paul II and asked him about his annulment situation. His Holiness replied that the Church does not do annulments for heads of state. He also recommended an attempt at reconciliation.
    That's interesting. Do you have any sources backing up your statements? thanks

    I don't have any internet sources. I only have my memory. I remember that Vincente Fox was a divorced man when he was elected to the presidency. At that time the Church was attempting a reconciliation but he filed for an annulment. While he was president he civilly married his then girlfriend, Marta Sahagun, another divorce. It was publicly announced over the Spanish language media that Marta Sahagun got her annulment first. Then after his presidential term was over Vincente's annulment went through. Then after the annulments for both parties went through they were married in a religious ceremony. These are the events as I recall them.


    Though there does not seem to be any real confirmation that Wojtyla was actually involved (at least I could not find any) and all such suggestions seem to be based on rumors, the historical facts do indicate that the Vatican would not grant an annulment while Fox was president of Mexico.  However, the annulment was approved very quickly after Fox's term of office was complete.

    There is no evidence, or even suggestion, that Wojtyla encouraged any reconciliation of the couple and the ultimate outcome indicates that the delay in granting an annulment was due purely to political appearances; that is, it would look bad to grant an annulment to a current head of State.

    Your comments, poche, are not only not germane to the topic, but it appears that you intentionally intended to mislead the membership by suggesting an actual Catholic moral motive in actions by Wojtyla when subsequent events clearly demonstrate purely political motives.


    Offline Geremia

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #8 on: October 16, 2015, 01:47:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: AthanasiusOfAlex, a priest who contributes to Christianity StackExchange
    The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), issued by Pope John Paul II, says that reunion is the ideal that should be sought, if that is possible:
    Quote
    Yet there are some situations in which living together becomes practically impossible for a variety of reasons. In such cases the Church permits the physical separation of the couple and their living apart. The spouses do not cease to be husband and wife before God and so are not free to contract a new union. In this difficult situation, the best solution would be, if possible, reconciliation. The Christian community is called to help these persons live out their situation in a Christian manner and in fidelity to their marriage bond which remains indissoluble (No. 1649)
    Moreover the Code of Canon Law (CIC) says
    Quote
    Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them
    and
    Quote
    Can. 1153 §1. If either of the spouses causes grave mental or physical danger to the other spouse or to the offspring or otherwise renders common life too difficult, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for leaving, either by decree of the local ordinary or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.  §2. In all cases, when the cause for the separation ceases, conjugal living must be restored unless ecclesiastical authority has established otherwise
    and also
    Quote
    Can. 1155 The innocent spouse laudably can readmit the other spouse to conjugal life; in this case the innocent spouse renounces the right to separate
    Hence, yes, the Church does encourage couples to reconcile, if that is possible. (That does not mean, of course, that the Church encourages victims of abuse to remain in abusive relationships; there are many other reasons why separation might occur.)
    (source)
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    Offline Geremia

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 07:28:43 PM »
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  • The Catechism of the Council of Trent encourages separated spouses to reunite:
    Quote from: Roman Catechism
    Advantages Of Indissolubility

    Lest, however, the law of Matrimony should seem too severe on account of its absolute indissolubility, the advantages of this indissolubility should be pointed out.

    The first (beneficial consequence) is that men are given to understand that in entering Matrimony virtue and congeniality of disposition are to be preferred to wealth or beauty ­­ a circumstance that cannot but prove of the very highest advantage to the interests of society at large.

    In the second place, if marriage could be dissolved by divorce, married persons would hardly ever be without causes of disunion, which would be daily supplied by the old enemy of peace and purity; while, on the contrary, now that the faithful must remember that even though separated as to bed and board, they remain none the less bound by the bond of marriage with no hope of marrying another, they are by this very fact rendered less prone to strife and discord. And even if it sometimes happens that husband and wife become separated, and are unable to bear the want of their partnership any longer, they are easily reconciled by friends and return to their common life.

    The pastor should not here omit the salutary admonition of St. Augustine who, to convince the faithful that they should not consider it a hardship to receive back the wife they have put away for adultery, provided she repents of her crime, observes: Why should not the Christian husband receive back his wife when the Church receives her? And why should not the wife pardon her adulterous but penitent husband when Christ has already pardoned him? True it is that Scripture calls him foolish who keepeth an adulteress ; but the meaning refers to her who refuses to repent of her crime and quit the disgraceful course she has entered on.

    From all this it will be clear that Christian marriage is far superior in dignity and perfection to that of Gentiles and Jews.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Has a Pope ever encouraged separated spouses to strive toward reunion?
    « Reply #10 on: July 10, 2016, 08:32:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: AthanasiusOfAlex, a priest who contributes to Christianity StackExchange
    Hence, yes, the Church does encourage couples to reconcile, if that is possible.


    The Conciliar church has a lot of documents that say one thing but its priests and bishops do something else entirely.


     

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