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Author Topic: Hans Küng has died  (Read 734 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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Hans Küng has died
« on: April 06, 2021, 05:15:24 PM »
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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #1 on: April 06, 2021, 05:16:47 PM »
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    • Quote
    SPIEGEL: Professor Küng, will you go to Heaven?
    Küng: Well I certainly hope so. [German: “Das hoffe ich doch sehr.” NOW comment: The way the answer is phrased in German suggests not the theological virtue of hope but a presumption that he is deserving of Heaven and it would be an affront to him should he not be admitted.]
    SPIEGEL: What would indicate that you will go to hell [instead] is you being a heretic in the eyes of the Church.
    Küng: I am not a heretic but a critical reform theologian, who, in contrast to many of his critics, does not use medieval theology, liturgy, and canon law as his standard but the Gospel.
    SPIEGEL: Does hell even exist?
    Küng: All the talk about hell is a warning that a man can completely miss the meaning of his life. I do not believe in an eternal hell.
    SPIEGEL: If hell means losing the meaning of life, then that is a fairly earthly conception.
    Küng: Sartre says that hell is other people. Men make their own hell, for example in wars like in Syria or also in an unscrupulous capitalism.
    (Hans Kung, “Ich hänge nicht an diesem Leben”, Der Spiegel, Dec. 9, 2013; underlining added; our translation.)
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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #2 on: April 06, 2021, 05:51:09 PM »
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #3 on: April 06, 2021, 10:07:55 PM »
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    • I pray that he saw the light and converted before his death.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #4 on: April 06, 2021, 10:51:19 PM »
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    • Here's how you know things were rotten in the Church for a long, long time — he was admitted to the seminary. Period. Someone let him stay for 7 years through minor and major orders. Either a very rotten seminary, or a rotten bishop, or both.
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    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #5 on: April 07, 2021, 08:43:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 06, 2021, 10:07:55 PM
    I pray that he saw the light and converted before his death.

    Here's another case where, if he ended up losing his soul, the Vatican had a huge role to play.  For his heresy, they gave him a mere slap on the wrist, declaring only that he could no longer be considered a "Catholic theologian."  So this left Kung complacent that he was still in good standing with the Church as a Catholic priest.  He should have been excommunicated ... for the good of his soul and that of others ... to send message to him that he was outside the Church and in grave danger of being lost for all eternity.  There's no guarantee that he would have responded to that message, but it most certainly should have been sent.

    Similarly, the message needs to be sent to the Orthodox and the Protestants that unless they join the Catholic Church before the end of their lives, they are lost for eternity.

    But no one believes anymore that there's no salvation outside the Church, and untold millions are being lost on account of this lack of faith.  Prots and Orthodox ... and heretics like Kung ... are basically told that they're fine and that they please God as they are.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #6 on: April 07, 2021, 09:05:21 AM »
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    • St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople, Doctor of the Church:

    I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.

    Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail. (Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)



    They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned. (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

    They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

    St. Teresa.... had she not risen from the state of lukewarmness in which she lived, she would in the end have lost the grace of God and been damned. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)

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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #7 on: April 07, 2021, 09:51:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 06, 2021, 10:07:55 PM
    I pray that he saw the light and converted before his death.
    Did Ratzinger try to convert him?
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #8 on: April 07, 2021, 09:57:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 07, 2021, 08:43:13 AM
    Here's another case where, if he ended up losing his soul, the Vatican had a huge role to play.  For his heresy, they gave him a mere slap on the wrist, declaring only that he could no longer be considered a "Catholic theologian."  So this left Kung complacent that he was still in good standing with the Church as a Catholic priest.  He should have been excommunicated ... for the good of his soul and that of others ... to send message to him that he was outside the Church and in grave danger of being lost for all eternity.  There's no guarantee that he would have responded to that message, but it most certainly should have been sent.

    Similarly, the message needs to be sent to the Orthodox and the Protestants that unless they join the Catholic Church before the end of their lives, they are lost for eternity.

    But no one believes anymore that there's no salvation outside the Church, and untold millions are being lost on account of this lack of faith.  Prots and Orthodox ... and heretics like Kung ... are basically told that they're fine and that they please God as they are.
    Call it post insomnia morning drowsiness, but the last line in your post Ladislaus brought to mind a song by Billy Joel, which could almost be an anthem for protestants, Orthodox, conciliarists and Pachamama huggers....
    Imagine the horror of God singing.....
    “DONT GO CHANGING TO TRY TO PLEASE ME, I LOVE YOU JUST THE WAY YOU ARE!”
    Yeeesh.
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    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #9 on: April 07, 2021, 10:25:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 07, 2021, 08:43:13 AM
    Here's another case where, if he ended up losing his soul, the Vatican had a huge role to play.  For his heresy, they gave him a mere slap on the wrist, declaring only that he could no longer be considered a "Catholic theologian."  So this left Kung complacent that he was still in good standing with the Church as a Catholic priest.  He should have been excommunicated ... for the good of his soul and that of others ... to send message to him that he was outside the Church and in grave danger of being lost for all eternity.  There's no guarantee that he would have responded to that message, but it most certainly should have been sent.

    Similarly, the message needs to be sent to the Orthodox and the Protestants that unless they join the Catholic Church before the end of their lives, they are lost for eternity.

    But no one believes anymore that there's no salvation outside the Church, and untold millions are being lost on account of this lack of faith.  Prots and Orthodox ... and heretics like Kung ... are basically told that they're fine and that they please God as they are.
    Not wishing to carry so much as one drop of water for Father Kueng, but did he say, write, or do anything that would have risen to the level of excommunication?  I know he was "really out there" with some of his ideas, and to tell the truth, I'm not that familiar with them.  I don't seek truth from questionable sources.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #10 on: April 07, 2021, 10:39:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on April 07, 2021, 10:25:35 AM
    Not wishing to carry so much as one drop of water for Father Kueng, but did he say, write, or do anything that would have risen to the level of excommunication?  I know he was "really out there" with some of his ideas, and to tell the truth, I'm not that familiar with them.  I don't seek truth from questionable sources.

    For starters, he was banned as a "Catholic theologian" even by the Novus Ordo for rejecting the dogma of papal infallibility and the very Magisterium.

    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/docuмents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19750215_libri-kung_en.html
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #11 on: April 07, 2021, 11:43:54 AM »
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    • And placed under interdict by Catholic University of America in 1963. 
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    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #12 on: April 07, 2021, 11:52:15 AM »
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    • I have a strong belief that Hans Kung died in his errors and heresies and that he had no regrets what he did to the church and that he
    wished to continue living and to do more harm to the church and souls.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #13 on: April 07, 2021, 01:19:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953 on April 07, 2021, 11:52:15 AM
    I have a strong belief that Hans Kung died in his errors and heresies and that he had no regrets what he did to the church and that he
    wished to continue living and to do more harm to the church and souls.
    I agree -- there is no sign he converted. We can't canonize him for hell or anything, but there is no basis for hope for his salvation.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Hans Küng has died
    « Reply #14 on: April 07, 2021, 01:44:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 07, 2021, 10:39:05 AM
    For starters, he was banned as a "Catholic theologian" even by the Novus Ordo for rejecting the dogma of papal infallibility and the very Magisterium.

    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/docuмents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19750215_libri-kung_en.html
    Okay, good to know, you too, "Minnesota", I know he talked and wrote a whole lot of mess, but I was a bit hazy about the particulars.  He wasn't exactly bedtime reading for me (not suggesting that any of present company engaged in this either), my tastes have always run more TAN Books, Douay Bible, and so on.  To paraphrase what William F Buckley Jr said about Harvard faculty and the Boston phone book, I'd feel safer directing my spiritual and moral life from the first thirty books in Thomas Nelson's catalog, than to look to the entire present college of (Novus Ordo) bishops.  (Not that this would be saying much.)
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