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Author Topic: GWS And Anti-popes  (Read 1332 times)

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GWS And Anti-popes
« on: August 10, 2009, 11:35:11 PM »
Is there anyone here who  thinks that the French faction of Popes during GWS are anti-popes?


Offline CM

GWS And Anti-popes
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 04:13:13 AM »
Better question, Roscoe:  Do you believe that there was more than one pope at a time?


GWS And Anti-popes
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 01:28:47 PM »
You know the answer to that already.

Offline CM

GWS And Anti-popes
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 03:35:44 PM »
You do!  But that doesn't make any sense at all.

The Council of Constance was convoked in 1414 by the antipope John XXIII, one of three rival claimants to the papal throne, the other two being Gregory XII and Benedict XIII. The Council was called to resolve all doubts as to the true successor of Peter, and end the Great Schism. John agreed to resign if his rivals would do the same, then he fled the city. In the absence of a papal convenor, the Council enacted Haec Sancta, which purported to subject even papal authority to the authority of the Council. John was brought back and deposed for scandalous conduct. Gregory convoked the Council anew, rejected all its prior proceedings (including Haec Sancta, which is below), and then resigned. The Council acquiesced in these actions, passed decrees on reform, condemned the heresies of Hus and Wyclif and, after deposing Benedict, elected Martin V, under whom unity was restored to the Church.

While no council, not even Ecuмenical, has authority to depose a pope, the two men who were deposed were both antipopes. The true pope was Gregory XII, who resigned rather than being deposed. He it was who authorized the sessions beginning on 4 July 1415, and declared all previous sessions (the first thirteen) null and void. Martin V ratified the succeeding sessions at the conclusion of the Council.


The famous Haec Sancta decree contradicting the Vatican Council on papal primacy/infallibility.

[Decrees of the council, concerning its authority and integrity, which had been abbreviated by cardinal Zabarella at the preceding session, against the wishes of the nations, and which are now restored, repeated and confirmed by a public decree]

In the name of the holy and undivided Trinity, Father and Son and holy Spirit. Amen. This holy synod of Constance, which is a general council, for the eradication of the present schism and for bringing unity and reform to God's church in head and members, legitimately assembled in the holy Spirit to the praise of almighty God, ordains, defines, decrees, discerns and declares as follows, in order that this union and reform of God's church may be obtained the more easily, securely, fruitfully and freely.

First it declares that, legitimately assembled in the holy Spirit, constituting a general council and representing the Catholic Church militant, it has power immediately from Christ; and that everyone of whatever state or dignity, even papal, is bound to obey it in those matters which pertain to the faith, the eradication of the said schism and the general reform of the said church of God in head and members.

Next, it declares that anyone of whatever condition, state or dignity, even papal, who contumaciously refuses to obey the past or future mandates, statutes, ordinances or precepts of this sacred council or of any other legitimately assembled general council, regarding the aforesaid things or matters pertaining to them, shall be subjected to well-deserved penance, unless he repents, and shall be duly punished, even by having recourse, if necessary, to other supports of the law.

Next, the said holy synod defines and ordains that the lord pope John XXIII may not move or transfer the Roman curia and its public offices, or its or their officials, from the city of Constance to another place, nor directly or indirectly compel the said officials to follow him, without the deliberation and consent of the same holy synod. If he has acted to the contrary in the past, or shall in the future, or if he has in the past, is now or shall in the future fulminate any processes or mandates or ecclesiastical censures or any other penalties, against the said officials or any other adherents of this sacred council, to the effect that they should follow him, then all is null and void and in no way are the said processes, censures and penalties to be obeyed, inasmuch as they are null and void. The said officials are rather to exercise their offices in the said city of Constance, and to carry them out freely as before, as long as this holy synod h being held in the said City.

Next, that all translations of prelates, or depositions of the same, or of any other beneficed persons, officials and administrators, revocations of commendams and gifts, admonitions, ecclesiastical censures, processes, sentences and whatever has been or will be done or accomplished by the aforesaid lord pope John or his officials or commissaries, since the beginning of this council, to the injury of the said council or its adherents, against the supporters or participants of this sacred council, or to the prejudice of them or of any one of them, in whatever way they may have been or shall be made or done, against the will of the persons concerned, are by this very fact, on the authority of this sacred council, null, quashed, invalid and void, and of no effect or moment, and the council by its authority quashes, invalidates and annuls them.

Next, it declares that the lord pope John XXIII and all the prelates and other persons summoned to this sacred council, and other participants in the same synod, have enjoyed and do now enjoy full freedom, as has been apparent in the said sacred council, and the opposite has not been brought to the notice of the said summoned persons or of the said council. The said sacred council testifies to this before God and people.

GWS And Anti-popes
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2009, 03:56:47 PM »
As posted several times previously-- Acc to Prof von Pastor, one of the conditions of the settlement of the GWS was as follows.

Since there was no heresy and no homos from 1378-1415, it was decided that one was left free to call either the Fr or IT Pope the real Pope. If you have a problem with that, take it up with von Pastor.

One convenience of this is that if, one day Urban VI(6?)  and Boniface IX(9?) are declared anti-popes, there will be another true Pope so the chair of Peter will not have been vacant.

If Boniface IX(9?) was trying to revive the legacy of the anti-pope who it can be argued was the cause of the GWS, then he would be an anti-pope himself.