Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Emile on April 22, 2021, 02:49:15 PM

Title: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 22, 2021, 02:49:15 PM
October 1st & 2nd 2021
Douglas County Fairgrounds
Castle Rock, CO—Kirk Hall
Robert Sungenis will discuss his books:
• Galileo Was Wrong, the Church was Right!
• Scientific Heresies: Their Effect on the Church
• The Geocentric Universe of St. Hildegard


PDFs attached below
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Incredulous on April 23, 2021, 03:05:09 PM



Castle Rock, CO is just 40 miles from Watkins, CO.

And as many know... in Watkins resides the SSPX's realist professor.


(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.KT-Uif2sq_9iLkIgG2W0ZQHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

But what a wonderful debate opportunity it could be!



Like St. Augustine's debates, Dr. Sungenis could debate the "Big Bang" theory with the good Father.


(https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/images_F-J/H196_Aug.jpg)
St. Augustine, center, debates Fortunatus, the blonde man with a black hat, forefront
-
Umbrian Master, ca 1500



     

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 05:01:36 PM
Dr Robert Sungenis proven wrong ...

https://youtu.be/FH5S8nEo2eM?t=707 (https://youtu.be/FH5S8nEo2eM?t=707)
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ascetik on April 25, 2021, 05:10:44 PM
Lol what a garbage video, it doesn't disprove anything. 
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Incredulous on April 25, 2021, 06:12:10 PM



Apollo, would you please ask Father Robinson to consider a debate with Dr. Sungenis?

If the SSPX seeks the truth, surely they wouldn't be afraid to let their priestly scholar defend his scientific arguments?


(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.1sDG5FScCZ7KrKWqzjlpAgHaFj%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: roscoe on April 25, 2021, 07:40:25 PM
E rev around S :popcorn:
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 08:13:56 PM
Lol what a garbage video, it doesn't disprove anything.
.
For most people it proves nothing, but for those with half a brain,
it's obvious that Dr Sungenis is an IDIOT. 
.
I guess for you, the WHOLE UNIVERSE moves up 74.5 million miles
and six month later, down 74.5 million miles, and repeats that cycle
every year.  
.
Never mind, you probably did not understand that's what Sungenis
is saying.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 08:18:41 PM
Apollo, would you please ask Father Robinson to consider a debate with Dr. Sungenis?

If the SSPX seeks the truth, surely they wouldn't be afraid to let their priestly scholar
defend his scientific arguments?
.
At this point in time, the SSPX has lost interest in the truth.  This is NOT about
the SSPX,  This is about an IDIOT who calls himself a "Dr".
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 08:21:03 PM
E rev around S
A+ for you.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ascetik on April 25, 2021, 08:26:26 PM
If you're so interested in slandering Dr. Sungenis, who's written numerous books on this topic why don't you ask him on his live show every Tuesday and Wednesday from 8pm-9:30pm EST. Or you could email him.

He is a busy man and obviously doesn't have time to refute every internet critique, nor does any sane man who writes a lot like he does.

You're free to your opinion but keep the ad hominems to yourself, it makes you sound like a juvenile.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 08:34:50 PM
If you're so interested in slandering Dr. Sungenis, who's written numerous books on this topic why don't you ask him on his live show every Tuesday and Wednesday from 8pm-9:30pm EST. Or you could email him.

He is a busy man and obviously doesn't have time to refute every internet critique, nor does any sane man who writes a lot like he does.

You're free to your opinion but keep the ad hominems to yourself, it makes you sound like a juvenile.
.
It does not do any good to argue with IDIOTS, like Sungenis.  He believes
in all kinds of forces that don't exist, such as Eather.  
.
This is not my "opinion" this is proven fact.  If you had half a brain,
you could understand, but alas, you don't.
.
Astronomy is too complicated a subject for most people at CathInfo.com,
even for the moderator.
.
I don't care what I sound like to the IDIOTS at CathInfo.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ascetik on April 25, 2021, 08:37:47 PM
There are plenty of proofs Aether exists. The Michelson-Morley experiment for one, which was replicated half a dozen times.

Look, you're obviously not interested in any opinion but your own, so do us all a favor and just keep it to yourself.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 08:42:57 PM
There are plenty of proofs Aether exists. The Michelson-Morley experiment for one, which was replicated half a dozen times.

Look, you're obviously not interested in any opinion but your own, so do us all a favor and just keep it to yourself.
.
You should just keep your opinion about Ether to yourself, because it makes
you sound like an IDIOT.
.
Watch the ten videos starting with Testing Geocentrism 1, and see if you can understand
the first one.  Ether is discussed in the videos.  So it's not just my opinion.  It's a fact that
the Eather Theory in space is IDIOTIC.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ascetik on April 25, 2021, 08:45:48 PM
No, it's some guy's opinion on the intenet. Pretty much everyone believed in aether forever until modern "scientists" had to get rid of it to explain away the geocentric model.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 08:48:38 PM
No, it's some guy's opinion on the intenet. Pretty much everyone believed in aether forever until modern "scientists" had to get rid of it to explain away the geocentric model.
.
This some guy on the internet is someone who is talking way above your brain level.
You cannot understand his arguments, so you call it an OPINION.
.
That make you sound like an IDIOT.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ascetik on April 25, 2021, 08:52:40 PM
You need to relax. 
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 09:08:30 PM
You need to relax.
.
You need to quit attacking me, with your stupidity.
Are you a medical doctor now. 
.
You need to have an argument or shut up.
Have you watched Testing Geocentrism 1 ?
.
No ?  Then shut up and go away, you little bitch attack dog.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ascetik on April 25, 2021, 09:11:32 PM
I'll say a prayer for you, you need it.

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Incredulous on April 25, 2021, 09:17:59 PM
.
At this point in time, the SSPX has lost interest in the truth.  This is NOT about
the SSPX,  This is about an IDIOT who calls himself a "Dr".


The SSPX superiors control Father Robinson's schedule and agenda.  That's why I mentioned it.

If Dr. Sungenis is a dummy as you say, then Father Robinson can prove it in a most charitable way, by demonstrating his superior arguments.

If Father Robinson's appearance in a public debate is deemed inappropriate, then he can bring forth a surrogate debater, who can articulate Father's arguments.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 09:24:05 PM
I'll say a prayer for you, you need it.
Oh you're so holy that you can see the state of my soul.
Maybe you need it more, the prayers. 
.
This is another attack , you little birch attack dog.
You have just proved that.
.
I'm still waiting for that argument proving Testing Geocentrism 1
to be wrong.
.
You are never going to watch it.  You just know it all.
.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 09:32:24 PM
The SSPX superiors control Father Robinson's schedule and agenda.  That's why I mentioned it.
If Dr. Sungenis is a dummy as you say, then Father Robinson can prove it in a most charitable
way, by demonstrating his superior arguments.

If Father Robinson's appearance in a public debate is deemed inappropriate, then he can bring
forth a surrogate debater, who can articulate Father's arguments.
.
You just don't get it.  You cannot argue with Sungenis.  Any more that you can
argue with Donald Duck about facts of Astronomy.  
.
The videos, Testing Geocentrism 1-10, have nearly 50 arguments against
Geocentrism.  Testing Geocentrism 10 shows what an IDIOT Sungenis is.  
.
Maybe you just aren't listening, just determined to attack Fr Paul Robinson.
You are another attack dog at CathInfo.   It's full of attack dogs, who cannot
understand the science enough to argue with it.  
.
You guys think the Bible is a science text book written by God.
Please show me the "foundations" of the earth and the "four corners".
.
That's the limit of your brain power.
.
BTW, the Earth is called a "globe" in the Douay-Rheims Bible.  How can you
have four corners on a "globe" ?
.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Incredulous on April 25, 2021, 09:53:53 PM
.
You just don't get it.  You cannot argue with Sungenis.  Any more that you can
argue with Donald Duck about facts of Astronomy.  
.
The videos, Testing Geocentrism 1-10, have nearly 50 arguments against
Geocentrism.  Testing Geocentrism 10 shows what an IDIOT Sungenis is.  
.
Maybe you just aren't listening, just determined to attack Fr Paul Robinson.
You are another attack dog at CathInfo.   It's full of attack dogs, who cannot
understand the science enough to argue with it.  
.
You guys think the Bible is a science text book written by God.
Please show me the "foundations" of the earth and the "four corners".
.
That's the limit of your brain power.
.
BTW, the Earth is called a "globe" in the Douay-Rheims Bible.  How can you
have four corners on a "globe" ?
.



If I wanted to attack Father Robinson, it would be easy.  His latest "foot-in-the-mouth" on the CÖVÌD virus, proved he knows very little about microbiology.

Father Robinson's educational credentials are that of a computer science engineer and a Roman Catholic priest.
He does not have a doctorate, but the SSPX calls him a professor.  Is that a fair assessment?

The question is, why are you and Father Robinson afraid of an open debate?
Are you taking the position that is impossible to have a fair debate?

If so, I'd call that a non Catholic position.


Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 25, 2021, 10:17:46 PM


If I wanted to attack Father Robinson, it would be easy.  His latest "foot-in-the-mouth" on the CÖVÌD virus, proved he knows very little about microbiology.

Father Robinson's educational credentials are that of a computer science engineer and a Roman Catholic priest.
He does not have a doctorate, but the SSPX calls him a professor.  Is that a fair assessment?

The question is, why are you and Father Robinson afraid of an open debate?
Are you taking the position that is impossible to have a fair debate?

If so, I'd call that a non Catholic position.
,
I don't know what Fr Robinson said about the CÖVÌD virus,
which has never been proven to exist, so far.
.
As for Dr Sungenis, the debate has already taken place and
Sungenis lost.  However, Sungenis does not know that he lost
he just continues to live in his fantasy world.
.
If you really want to see the arguments against Sungenis,
you will watch the videos, Testing Geocentrism 1-10, on Youtube.
.
Can you handle that ?  I don't think so.  It's much easier to attack
people on CathInfo without looking at the arguments.
.
Watch Testing Geocentrism 1 and tell me where the error is ...
or SHUT UP.
.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 25, 2021, 11:10:47 PM
Dr Robert Sungenis proven wrong ...

https://youtu.be/FH5S8nEo2eM?t=707 (https://youtu.be/FH5S8nEo2eM?t=707)

I watched the video that you linked to. Half the presentation is simply calling everyone else an idiot or some variation thereof. I started to watch the first video in the series , 40 seconds in he's already mocking the Bible.

Couldn't you find better than someone who calls the Bible "Holy Shit"?

I did. Here are three.

These people can at least explain their view while acting like adults:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S13Sr-H7TWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khIzr6610cQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au4Ab7PBRVA



Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Incredulous on April 25, 2021, 11:13:22 PM
,
I don't know what Fr Robinson said about the CÖVÌD virus,
which has never been proven to exist, so far.
.
As for Dr Sungenis, the debate has already taken place and
Sungenis lost.  However, Sungenis does not know that he lost
he just continues to live in his fantasy world.
.
If you really want to see the arguments against Sungenis,
you will watch the videos, Testing Geocentrism 1-10, on Youtube.
.
Can you handle that ?  I don't think so.  It's much easier to attack
people on CathInfo without looking at the arguments.
.
Watch Testing Geocentrism 1 and tell me where the error is ...
or SHUT UP.
.

Hey Apollo,

Where do you live?

We want to come beat you up.
:fryingpan:
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 25, 2021, 11:24:29 PM


. If you really want to see the arguments against Sungenis,
you will watch the videos, Testing Geocentrism 1-10, on Youtube.
.
Can you handle that ?  I don't think so.  It's much easier to attack
people on CathInfo without looking at the arguments.

.
Watch Testing Geocentrism 1 and tell me where the error is ...
or SHUT UP.
.

Out of curiosity did you look to see if the claims of "testing geocentrism" (who's channel name is Cool Hard Logic, CHL) had been answered?

Sungenis offered a direct rebuttal 7 years ago (this is just for video 1):

Besides creating countless strawmen to beat up in his series of six videos, CHL is typical of a
bully who picks on weaker victims. CHL’s author consistently argues against a monicker named
Ferniboy100. It is apparent that Ferniboy, although his heart is in the right place, made some
scientific mistakes when explaining how the celestial bodies operate. CHL wastes no time in making the whole geocentric movement appear bogus based on Ferniboy’s ill-fated conclusions.

 At 1:28, CHL cites Ferniboy stating that geocentrism is the only correct model of cosmology
because if the Earth is tilted, then the Earth could never really point toward Polaris or that Polaris
would need to move around to stay with the Earth.
Ferniboy is obviously wrong, but consensus geocentrism does not advocate Ferniboy’s analysis.
CHL doesn’t bother to mention that important fact, but it would be very easy to find in reputable
geocentric literature and videos.
 2:40f: CHL begins a bogus argument that in the geocentric system it would be impossible for the
sun to move up and down in an arc without defying the laws of physics.
What CHL doesn’t understand is that the sun, in the geocentric system, moves vertically in an arc
because the universe itself is oscillating back and forth in a 74 million mile margin. Since the sun
is held in the gravitational field of the universe, the sun will likewise oscillate within the same 74
million mile margin, which turns out to be a maximum angle of 23.5 degrees if measured from
the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun. Hence, because the universe is spherical and
oscillates accordingly, the Sun will move vertically, in an arc, obeying all the present laws of
physics. See figure below.

CHL itself admits to a similar configuration as it demonstrates that as the ecliptic plane moves up and
down through the year, the sun moves in an arc, not straight up and down. This can be seen in CHL’s
Video #2

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wu7LqF8fzk)

at the 4:24 mark.


 3:50f: CHL argues that geocentrism is wrong because the distance between the earth and sun
varies.
This shows that CHL is either ignorant of or purposely ignores the fact that almost all geocentric
systems incorporate varying distance between the Sun and the Earth, using either the same
elliptical orbit for the Sun as the heliocentric system uses for the Earth or giving the Sun varying
speeds in its orbit.

 4:31 CHL says the geocentric position “has no laws, no math, no physics.”
Obviously CHL has not read most of the treatises on geocentrism produced by qualified
scientists, and CHL does not understand the logical conclusions of either Newtonian, Machian or
Einsteinian physics, since each of them make the geocentric universe viable.
 7:53: CHL notes that Ferniboy is using a Ptolemaic model of geocentrism.
Whether he does or doesn’t, this is a strawman argument since no reputable geocentric scientist
today uses Ptolemy’s model. Apparently CHL is not familiar with modern geocentrism, namely
the Tychonic and Neo-Tychonic models. Unfortunately, CHL wastes our time going on its witch
hunt until 9:45.

 9:48 CHL claims that Mars’ retrograde proves heliocentrism. At 9:56 CHL says “this was key to
disproving the view of the ancients.”
Obviously, CHL doesn’t know either astronomy or the geocentric system, since in the Tychonic
model the retrograde motion of Mars is exactly the same as the heliocentric model. See Video #7
at www.galileowaswrong.com

 10:26: CHL says that retrograde motion can be observed even if we put Earth fixed in the center
and watch the sun go around the Earth and the planets go around the sun. CHL then slams
Ferniboy at 10:44 for not being able to see this movement because Ferniboy is using the
Ptolemaic model.
CHL doesn’t realize that its own animation of the Earth-centered view at 10:26 is actually the
reigning geocentric model today, the Tychonic model. In other words, without knowing it, CHL
admits the Tychonic system has the same retrograde motion of the planets as the heliocentric
system. Obviously, then, retrograde motion does not prove heliocentrism.
 11:08: CHL claims that Ptolemy’s problem was “gravity, you f…ing retard.”
I assume we are to identify the author of Cool Hard Logic’s video by this scary character in the
farmer’s hat who looks like he just crawled out of bed. For all CHL’s bluster, it doesn’t
understand that gravity was not the problem for Ptolemy’s model since gravity is a dynamic issue,
not a kinematic issue. Moreover, famous heliocentrists such as Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler
knew nothing about gravity. They worked strictly from kinematics.

 11:21: CHL claims that “we don’t use epicycles today.”
The problem for Ptolemy wasn’t epicycles. The problem was that Ptolemy didn’t know the
distances to the planets, but in place of that ignorance he provided six variables for correction for
those who might find the correct distances. As for epicycles, Copernicus’ system was more
complex than Ptolemy’s since he used 48 epicycles whereas Ptolemy used only 40. See Video #3
for Copernicus epicycles at www.galileowaswrong.com.
The truth is, we still use “epicycles” today, but they are called by different names, such as Fourier
analysis. The reason we need such crutches is that it is next to impossible to determine the exact
ʀɛʋօʟutιօns of the planets due to their constant perturbations. We can estimate them, but they are
never exact, since we have no math beyond a three-body problem to calculate them.

 11:26: After displaying wild gyrations and comical music of the geocentric Tychonic model
above, CHL claims that only the heliocentric view has “non-physics defying elements.”
Obviously CHL doesn’t understand that the same dynamic and kinematic laws are used in the
Tychonic system as in the heliocentric. Of the two models, however, the geocentric is the most
stable, since it requires only a rotating universe whose massive size will create enough inertia to
keep it revolving around Earth ad infinitum. Conversely, heliocentrism has the problem of
explaining why the Earth’s rotation does not decay but is always 23 hours, 56 minute and 4.7
seconds, whereas evolutionists with whom CHL is favorable teach the Earth spun much faster
millions of years ago. Logically, if it spun much faster many years ago, we should be able to
detect it slowing down today by comparing two points of rates. Since Venus and Saturn have
decayed rotation rates, why not Earth?

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 25, 2021, 11:41:31 PM
 It's much easier to attack
people on CathInfo without looking at the arguments.

.

This is a rebuttal video to "testing geocentrism"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ysizkuL_g

Written rebuttal linked in video description on youtube and also attached  as pdf. It deals with the points raised in a relatively succinct manner.

If you know of any decent direct rebuttals to geocentrism, by someone who can behave in a becoming manner, I would be interested in viewing or reading it.



Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 25, 2021, 11:49:40 PM
.It does not do any good to argue with IDIOTS, like Sungenis.

If you have a particular animus toward Sungenis, try Dr. Bennett:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pChbPkf7eOs
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: apollo on April 26, 2021, 12:34:42 AM
.
Like I said, "You cannot argue with IDIOTS".
No arguments from me. 

You guys don't even understand the most basic fundamental
force in the universe which is responsible for the movements
of the planets in our solar system.
.
Have you heard of the universal gravitational constant ?
Do you know the formula used to compute the force of
one body on another ?
.
You talk about gravitational force of the universe ?
This is stupidity in action. 
.
There's no argument you guys could comprehend.
.
Believe in Sungenis.  I don't care.  I had my rant.
I had to show that there is another side to this Geocentrism
bullshit.
.
Let the brain dead believe Sungenis. 
.
I'm moving on now.  Good Bye.
.

.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 26, 2021, 12:52:20 AM
.
Like I said, "You cannot argue with IDIOTS".
No arguments from me.
.
Have a good evening (or day as the case may be), Apollo.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Incredulous on April 26, 2021, 08:31:52 AM
Have a good evening (or day as the case may be), Apollo.

Apollo,

Please report to Fr. Paul Robinson that Incredulous’s Cathinfo farewell to you was:

“Good riddance you millennial trash”
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Stanley N on April 26, 2021, 08:38:31 AM
This is a rebuttal video to "testing geocentrism"

Written rebuttal linked in video description on youtube and also attached  as pdf. It deals with the points raised in a relatively succinct manner.

Do you think the Sungenis video accurately represents and fairly rebuts points in the CHL video?
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 26, 2021, 05:48:41 PM
Do you think the Sungenis video accurately represents and fairly rebuts points in the CHL video?

The rebuttal video is someone reading the first part of Dr. Sungenis' paper which is attached to my previous posts (replies 25 & 26).

To be sure that we are talking about the same thing, here is the first video of CHL.  Although, if you watch it, I recommend doing so out of earshot of young children (not joking).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyRJZbNmC7U&list=PLmWeueTF8l82THrHwihtcmhQdjcBQBXjT&index=1

I have watched the first CHL video twice and I do think Sungenis makes a fair, although brief, rebuttal. It would take volumes to address all the claims that CHL makes.

Your quote missed including my last sentence; I duplicate and reaffirm it here:

Quote
If you know of any decent direct rebuttals to geocentrism, by someone who can behave in a becoming manner, I would be interested in viewing or reading it.

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 26, 2021, 06:41:53 PM
E rev around S :popcorn:

Come on, now.  Even with Newtonian physics both the earth and the sun revolve around the barycenter of the solar system, which often isn’t anywhere inside the sun.

Yet the entire solar system allegedly moves.  So the entire universe revolves around the barycenter of the universe.  Please prove that the earth is NOT at the barycenter of the universe.

In the highly suspect Newtonian model, the only “unmoving” object in the universe would be located at the barycenter of the universe, which has not been located.

All motion is relative and based on perspective.  So the scientists claim that the entire solar system is flying through space at breakneck speeds so that the motion model looks more like a vortex.

Ah, but there’s more.  Allegedly the entire galaxy is in motion.  So the “absolute” movement model is mind-bogglingly complex.

So what is the absolute frame of reference for the entire created universe?

Then factor in the that notion gravity is pure bunk, with some other unexplained forces actually behind these movements, your E revolves around S is childish grade school nonsense.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 26, 2021, 06:44:46 PM
A+ for you.

By agreeing with this you show yourself an idiot also ... as per my previous post.

And this is from a guy who believes the fairy tale of the moon landings.   :laugh1:
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 26, 2021, 07:56:18 PM
I imagine that apollo would find the whole "Axis of Evil" phenomenon to be quite disturbing.

Even the Jew Lawrence Krauss, who taught at Yale (among other places), remarked about it:
Quote
But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun – the plane of the earth around the sun – the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.

This was dubbed "Axis of Evil" by the largely-atheistic scientists because of its implications (here's another Jew):
Quote
Data from the Planck Telescope published in 2013 has since found stronger evidence for the anisotropy. "For a long time, part of the community was hoping that this would go away, but it hasn’t," says Dominik Schwarz of the University of Bielefeld in Germany.

So the scientists tried to explain away the original data, but then (yet another Jew):
Quote
In June, 2020, the 'axis of evil' observation was confirmed by a study conducted by Lior Shamir, which verified the same result via a different measurement.  Shamir commented: "We have two different sky surveys showing the exact same patterns, even when the galaxies are completely different. There is no error that can lead to that. This is the universe that we live in. This is our home."

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 26, 2021, 08:19:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyRJZbNmC7U&list=PLmWeueTF8l82THrHwihtcmhQdjcBQBXjT&index=1

This guy is not only a blasphemous pig, mocking the Sacred Scriptures (thus revealing his true agenda ... perhaps he's a practicing sơdơmite?) but he's an imbecile.  He's showing mathematical angles between earth and the sun.  Is this moron not aware that all position and "maths" (that he keeps touting) is relative between the two objects.  Planetarium software is known to use geocentric math ... because in a lot of ways it's much simpler.  Their only argument from "maths" is the assertion that it looks simpler or more elegant.  But the whole notion that the earth is simply rotating in a nice elliptical pattern around a stationary sun is utter "Bollocks" ... to use this moron's favorite term.

So this low-grade moron distorts the geocentric movement by speeding up the rotation of the universe around the earth to a ridiculous speed (as opposed to taking place in 24 hours) to make it look stupid (each cycle that he makes whip around the earth 5 times per second actually takes 24 hours).  Then he contrasts that with the "simple elegance" of the elliptical motions.  But that shows him to be a moron, for that simple motion is absolute BOLLOCKS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU

Quoting from this video:  "The old heliocentric model of our solar system ... planets rotating around the sun ... is not only boring, but also incorrect."

Let him take out his protractor and measure that one.  And then I saw an article from NASA saying that, given the movement of the solar system within the galaxy, and then the galaxy through the universe, it's even much more complicated than that.  But given all the mass in the universe, it's absolutely unclear which forces are acting on what other forces, and which are the stronger ones.

So much for the "simplicity" of the elliptical pattern so that students can be brainwashed into making models of the solar system with styrofoam balls attached to a bigger ball with sticks.  That is the level of this moron's thinking, and his hatred for Sacred Scripture are what turn him into a moron.

So this great genius starts with a strawman by picking on some poor guy making a youtube video ... taking on the "heavy hitters" as it were.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 26, 2021, 08:42:19 PM
Here's Tycho Brahe's model.  It's also quite elegant and beautiful.  It works similar to those old spirograph toys.  It all depends on what is anchoring what and how.  Recall that gravity has never been proven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6laRU_BzhvU

Here's a scientific paper entitled:  Gravity is a Myth
https://www.scitechnol.com/peer-review/gravity-is-a-myth-CHpy.php?article_id=8027#:~:text=GRAVITY%20DOES%20NOT%20EXIST%E2%80%A6.,Universe%20on%20a%20galactic%20scale.&text=This%20force%20is%20pushing%20us,walk%20on%20the%20Earth%20freely.

Quote
The theory of gravity has been around for over three hundred years. From Newton to Einstein we have believed this theory that gravity is an internal force of mass, i.e., Mass creates Gravity. However, no one has ever truly understood this force, nor have they proven its existence. I am presenting a new theory about Gravity from a quantum mechanics (QM) point of view in which Gravity is not an unknown force coming from a mass; but is, however, an internal force in the atom. When we look at anything surrounding us, it is made from atoms and the building blocks of all atoms are made of Quantum Elementary Particles (QEP). Therefore, to say a mechanical movement creates quantum structure is not accurate. It should be the reverse; the accretion of QM structure is creating mechanical energy. A solid rested mass does not generate any force. Furthermore, a mass in space is weightless as we have experienced for decades by sending astronauts into space. Therefore, the theory of gravity also does not work with classical physics (CP) in space. We have never observed any indication of gravity in the weightless planets in space. My observation of the two theories of gravity, on Earth and in Space, is that they are based on a faulty foundation and neither of them is following the laws of CP nor QM physics.


Here's another professor who asserts that gravity does not exist, but he has a different theory about what causes some of the phenomena heretofore ascribed to "gravity".
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html

Quote
So says Erik Verlinde, 48, a respected string theorist and professor of physics at the University of Amsterdam, whose contention that gravity is indeed an illusion has caused a continuing ruckus among physicists, or at least among those who profess to understand it.
...
“For me gravity doesn’t exist,” said Dr. Verlinde, who was recently in the United States to explain himself. Not that he can’t fall down, but Dr. Verlinde is among a number of physicists who say that science has been looking at gravity the wrong way and that there is something more basic, from which gravity “emerges,” the way stock markets emerge from the collective behavior of individual investors or that elasticity emerges from the mechanics of atoms.

Heliocentrism depends entirely on the notion of "gravity" which has indeed never been understood or proven to exist.  So heliocentism is nothing more than a theory.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 26, 2021, 08:44:35 PM
This guy is not only a blasphemous pig, mocking the Sacred Scriptures (thus revealing his true agenda ... perhaps he's a practicing sơdơmite?) but he's an imbecile.  He's showing mathematical angles between earth and the sun.  Is this moron not aware that all position and "maths" (that he keeps touting) is relative between the two objects.  Planetarium software is known to use geocentric math ... because in a lot of ways it's much simpler.  Their only argument from "maths" is the assertion that it looks simpler or more elegant.  But the whole notion that the earth is simply rotating in a nice elliptical pattern around a stationary sun is utter "Bollocks" ... to use this moron's favorite term.

So this low-grade moron distorts the geocentric movement by speeding up the rotation of the universe around the earth to a ridiculous speed (as opposed to taking place in 24 hours) to make it look stupid (each cycle that he makes whip around the earth 5 times per second actually takes 24 hours).  Then he contrasts that with the "simple elegance" of the elliptical motions.  But that shows him to be a moron, for that simple motion is absolute BOLLOCKS.


Quoting from this video:  "The old heliocentric model of our solar system ... planets rotating around the sun ... is not only boring, but also incorrect."

Let him take out his protractor and measure that one.  And then I saw an article from NASA saying that, given the movement of the solar system within the galaxy, and then the galaxy through the universe, it's even much more complicated than that.  But given all the mass in the universe, it's absolutely unclear which forces are acting on what other forces, and which are the stronger ones.

So much for the "simplicity" of the elliptical pattern so that students can be brainwashed into making models of the solar system with styrofoam balls attached to a bigger ball with sticks.  That is the level of this moron's thinking, and his hatred for Sacred Scripture are what turn him into a moron.

So this great genius starts with a strawman by picking on some poor guy making a youtube video ... taking on the "heavy hitters" as it were.

You seem somewhat less than impressed by CHL. :laugh1:
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 26, 2021, 09:03:49 PM
You seem somewhat less than impressed by CHL. :laugh1:

I'm not the least bit impressed.  So far he "proved" heliocentrism by

1) doing some math that seemed more elegant (and then distorting the speed of the universe's rotation around the earth) ... but the simple movement of rotation around the sun is actually ... incorrect

2) assuming the existence of gravity, which not only has never been proven, but in fact has been disproven in many ways; gravity is a theory and assumption

3) attacking some random individual's youtube video as somehow representative of the geocentrism argument (creating a straw man)

You take away his perception of simplicity and elegance (which are incorrect even by modern standards, since the movement is incredibly more complex) and you take away the theory of gravity (which is increasingly falling out of favor even among high-level scientists in favor of some atomic force) ... and his entire house of cards "proving" geocentrism collapses in on itself.

He's pure BOLLOCKS.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Matthew on April 26, 2021, 10:13:22 PM
Great contributions to the thread, Ladislaus. Spot-on.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: gladius_veritatis on April 26, 2021, 10:15:35 PM
Recall that gravity has never been proven...

Heliocentrism depends entirely on the notion of "gravity" which has indeed never been understood or proven to exist.  So heliocentism is nothing more than a theory.

Excellent and solid point.   Newtonian physics is also now apparently racist, as are math and science as a whole, SATs, etc.
https://libertyunyielding.com/2020/07/14/time-to-cancel-isaac-newton-and-decolonize-physics/
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Matthew on April 26, 2021, 10:19:29 PM
I have met the user "apollo" IRL.  He is definitely high-IQ, and he's a highly specialized software engineer. He wrote the software and runs the site "DRBO.ORG". He is the type to create a website by hand, to maximize performance and reliability. He's the old-school type of developer who is inclined to optimize code to squeeze out every clock cycle.

Note his very screen name, or the way he chose to best distinguish himself from every other Catholic on here. In other words, his favorite identity and way to distinguish himself is a pagan god, also the namesake of the "moon missions" purported to have taken place during the early 1970's.

This man believes in both the moon landings AND heliocentrism. Why am I not surprised?

But on the other hand, he supports the Resistance and seems to be completely on-target when it comes to the Crisis in the Church.

So I can only conclude that he seems to have a serious blindspot in his brain, wisdom, etc. when it comes to science. I wish I understood why, but unfortunately I don't know Mr. P. M. well enough to know the backstory on this.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: gladius_veritatis on April 26, 2021, 11:03:33 PM
So I can only conclude that he seems to have a serious blindspot in his brain, wisdom, etc. when it comes to science. I wish I understood why, but unfortunately I don't know Mr. P. M. well enough to know the backstory on this.

No need to pretend you don't know the cause, as such blind-spots are always due to pride.  There may be mitigating circuмstances, something known to God and none of our business, but that changes nothing with respect to the clear, obvious, time-tested principles of the spiritual life.

Pray for him.  God help us all.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ascetik on April 27, 2021, 06:54:00 AM
I didn't engage with him more fully earlier because I was on my phone and it was late in the evening for me, but yes everything Ladislaus said was on the money. Apollo conveniently ignored my Michelson-morely reference.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 27, 2021, 07:55:21 AM
I didn't engage with him more fully earlier because I was on my phone and it was late in the evening for me, but yes everything Ladislaus said was on the money. Apollo conveniently ignored my Michelson-morely reference.

Of course he ignored it.  He has an ax to grind.

When we speak of the "center" of the Universe, we need to define what that even means.  Center of Motion, Center of Gravity, Center of Energy, Center of Mass?  But that "Axis of Evil" discovery is one of the most serious indicators that the Earth is at the center of the Universe's entire energy field.  And that odds of that are astronomically small unless the Earth was created first as Genesis explains, and the rest of the Universe was created around it.  Even those atheistic Jews I cited indicated that this means that the Earth is at the center of the Universe.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 27, 2021, 08:08:03 AM
Read, as I did, most of the posts on this thread, I failed to find the root cause of the controversy between a geocentric world and as heliocentric one, the Catholic Bible.

As geocentrism is the order of the senses, the vast majority of human beings accepted this until about 1800AD. The Bible in many places confirmed this, especially at the Council Of Trent (1545) when Catholicism reached perfection.

‘The words heaven and Earth include all things that the heavens and the Earth contain… He also gave to the sun its brilliancy, and to the moon and stars their beauty; and that they may be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years. He so ordered the celestial bodies in a certain and uniform course that nothing varies more than their continual ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, while nothing is more fixed than their variety…. The Earth also God commanded to stand in the midst of the world, rooted in its own foundations (Psa. 103:5).’--- The Catechism of Trent:

In the 17th century, Copernicus gave a geometrical and mathematical credibility to the heliocentric order. This was followed by Kepler and Galileo who claimed the Bible was interpreted wrong by ALL the Fathers and theologians up to then. Thus began the greatest conflict in history between Faith and reason (I say reason because there was no science involved at the time). Pope Paul V decreed it was formal heresy to deny the moving-sun depicted in Scripture in many places. History recalls that observations discovered (like stellar aberration and parallax) were said to be proofs for heliocentrism and thus a falsification of geocentrism. In 1820, popes Pius VII and Gregory XVI conceded to advice from the Holy Office and allowed books on heliocentrism to be read and believed. Thus as Fr Hull said in his book, the divinely protected Catholic Church made 'the only one really big, obvious, and unundebatable blunder in their whole history.' To this day, because of the 'proofs' of science, the Catholic Church is accused of getting it wrong when it defined and decreed the Bible reveals geocentrism.

Now let us discuss the science as found in the book the Earthmovers, a book with not a single reference to Sungenis's 'Galileo Was Wrong.' In other words it was researched long before and after Sungenis, an investigation that would also find the truth on its own like Sungenis and many other did for the last 100 years.

On this thread there is mentioned the ether, our friends Apollo and Roscoe I think reject its existence as all Einsteinians must do. An experiment, The M&M test, was carried out many times over 50 years to find ether by way of light from an orbiting Earth. Every single time an interference fringe was found but not the 30klm/s needed to show an orbiting Earth. Over time that fringe came down to .9klm/s. Because they needed the 30klm/s to show the Earth orbits the sun, and it didn't, they said it was a null/nil result. Einstine came to the rescue to save heliocentrism. He gave his STR that said no ether exists, nothing faster than the speed of light, and RELATIVITY exists. The only part of his theories that is proven is that relativity exists. In other words, heliocentrism and geocentrism are plausable. In other words, Einstein, speaking for true science this one time, ADMITS GEOCENTRISM WAS NEVER PROVEN WRONG.

‘Whether the Earth rotates once a day from west to east as Copernicus taught, or the heavens revolve once a day from east to west as his predecessors believed, the observable phenomena will be exactly the same. This shows a defect in Newtonian dynamics, since an empirical science ought not to contain a metaphysical assumption that cannot be proved or disproved by observation.’---Bertrand Russell: quoted in D. D. Sciama’s The Unity of the Universe, p.18

Now note the above remark carefully, that the order of the universe is a metaphysical matter. Now metaphysics is the business of the Church and therefore the 1616 decree still stands as a never abrogated papal decree, that heliocentrism is formally heretical. Now readers on this forum are mostly Catholic, and the word of God is enough for you to know the truth that the universe is geocentric.

But now let us go back to science. Even Sungenis takes Newton's theory of gravity seriously. It is only one of many theories, non-provable and non-falsifiable. Domenico Cassini found orbits are electromagnetic courses. Videos have been put up on this thread supposedly debunking geocentrism, but you cannot debunk relativity. The last real bit of science is the M&M test. Einstein's GTR supposedly denied it showed a non-orbiting Earth. The smaller interference fringe did show either as the universe rotated areond the Earth. A heliocentric Earth needs a goose (orbiting) and a gander (rotating) fringe.

Now real science says you cannot prove a theory but you can falsify it with one single contradiction. Now read Russle above again. He says you can reverse the geocentric and heliocentric models and the physical positions will remain the same. well, Walter van der Kamp did this and they don't when comparing a reversal of the two models to find stellar aberration. Thus Einstein's STR is falsified and science is back to the M&M test that shows there is no orbiting Earth.

Finally, to date there is NO PROOF for a geocentric or a heliocentric universe, so you can all dismiss the videos put up by Roscoe and Apollo as just more tricks trying to show the Bible, Fathers and Churchmen until 1820 were wrong. Nor is there scientific proof for geocentrism, only a maybe proof by way of the M&M test.

For me at any rate, and many friends on CIF, God gave us proof when he told us in His Bible that what we see is the truth, the sun and stars rotate around the Earth every day. My, how special are we.  
                     

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 27, 2021, 08:14:44 AM
I love how they rejected either but then came up with the concept of "dark matter".
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 27, 2021, 08:26:19 AM
So they basically threw out the notion of ether because they refused to admit that the earth might not be in motion.

Then they invented the concept of dark matter because they refused to question Big Bang theory.

So these scientific developments are root only in their own biases.

This is why they tried to "canonize" Einstein, make him the genius of all geniuses, because he came along to save the idea that the earth is in motion.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 27, 2021, 08:28:33 AM
From what I read of the Galileo condemnation, the Church ...

1) condemned as heresy that the sun stood still

AND

2) condemned as error that the earth moves

So the part that was condemned as heretical, well, modern science has since confirmed that the sun moves, and there isn't a scientist in the world who believes that the sun stands still.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on April 27, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
From what I read of the Galileo condemnation, the Church ...

1) condemned as heresy that the sun stood still

AND

2) condemned as error that the earth moves

So the part that was condemned as heretical, well, modern science has since confirmed that the sun moves, and there isn't a scientist in the world who believes that the sun stands still.
Good analysis, Lad.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: gladius_veritatis on April 27, 2021, 09:34:03 AM
Now note the above remark carefully, that the order of the universe is a metaphysical matter. Now metaphysics is the business of the Church...

Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy.  It is a science which pertains to the natural order; i.e. it does not take Divine Revelation into account.  Aristotle's The Metaphysics is widely studied to this day at both Catholic and non-Catholic institutions alike, and deservedly so.

Not a huge matter, of course, but clarity is always good for any discussion.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 27, 2021, 12:13:59 PM
Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy.  It is a science which pertains to the natural order; i.e. it does not take Divine Revelation into account.  Aristotle's The Metaphysics is widely studied to this day at both Catholic and non-Catholic institutions alike, and deservedly so.

Not a huge matter, of course, but clarity is always good for any discussion.

Yes gladius, thanks for that;

Metaphysics: The field of philosophy concerning first principles, which includes the study of being (ontology), the study of the origin and structure of the universe (cosmology), and the science of knowledge (epistemology).

Aristotle's book on metaphysics was divided into three sections: ontology, theology, and universal science.

Given the Catholic faith also teaches about creation, the study of the origin and structure of the universe (cosmology) in 1616, and St Thomas said theology was the queen of all sciences, we could say the question of Relativity, called metaphysics by Russell, did in this case come under the auspices of Church teaching.    
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: roscoe on April 27, 2021, 12:20:29 PM
E & S are BOTH in motion :popcorn:
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 27, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
From what I read of the Galileo condemnation, the Church ...

1) condemned as heresy that the sun stood still

AND

2) condemned as error that the earth moves

So the part that was condemned as heretical, well, modern science has since confirmed that the sun moves, and there isn't a scientist in the world who believes that the sun stands still.

Condemned as heresy;

‘That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement, was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical, inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by the Fathers and theologians.'

If we read the condemnations again carefully, we find the 1616 ruling only condemned the denial of a ‘local’ motion for the sun. Now the word ‘local’ means ‘pertaining to position in space,’ so the heresy above is only to say it does not move around the Earth. The rotational motion of the sun was known by the movement of sunspots, first observed by Thomas Harriot in 1610, Johannes Fabricus in 1611, and then by Galileo shortly after that. The Scriptures do not deny a rotation of the sun so it cannot be considered denied in the 1616 decree.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 27, 2021, 12:29:54 PM
E & S are BOTH in motion :popcorn:

Good man Roscoe, at least you got one right. the only way you can know this is if you went outside the universe and looked baxck in to see which body is fixed and which is in motion. Why not say 'I think E & S are BOTH in motion.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 27, 2021, 12:31:06 PM
                                 The Tolstoy Syndrome

‘I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truths if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.’
 
‘The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.’ --- Leo Tolstoy
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Struthio on April 27, 2021, 12:34:28 PM
I imagine that apollo would find the whole "Axis of Evil" phenomenon to be quite disturbing.

Even the Jew Lawrence Krauss, who taught at Yale (among other places), remarked about it:
This was dubbed "Axis of Evil" by the largely-atheistic scientists because of its implications (here's another Jew):
So the scientists tried to explain away the original data, but then (yet another Jew):


Not even Epstein was able to make the "axis of evil" go away:


Quote
Physicist/cosmologist Lawrence Krauss, who recently was featured on Edge("How Do You Fed-ex the Pope?"), recently convened a physics conference on St. Thomas, which included an all-star cast of cutting-edge theorists and physicists.

[...]
They could meet, discuss, relax on the beach, and take a trip to the nearby private island retreat of the science philanthropist Jeffrey Epstein, who funded the event.

(https://www.edge.org/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/event-images/838_13.jpg?itok=mydGXGz6)

[LAWRENCE KRAUSS:] I just returned from the Virgin Islands, from a delightful event — a conference in St. Thomas — that I organized with 21 physicists. I like small events, and I got to hand-pick the people. The topic of the meeting was "Confronting Gravity. "
edge.org (https://www.edge.org/conversation/lawrence_m_krauss-the-energy-of-empty-space-that-isnt-zero)
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: gladius_veritatis on April 27, 2021, 01:18:28 PM
Yes gladius, thanks for that;

Metaphysics: The field of philosophy concerning first principles, which includes the study of being (ontology), the study of the origin and structure of the universe (cosmology), and the science of knowledge (epistemology).

Aristotle's book on metaphysics was divided into three sections: ontology, theology, and universal science.

Happy to be of service.  

FWIW, the theology of Aristotle is natural theology, i.e. it does not have anything to do with Divine Revelation.  God and things related to God -- i.e., theological matters -- can be limited to only what can be known by unaided reason, OR be expanded to include what can be known by reason illumined by supernatural Faith; clearly, Aristotle was limited to the former.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 27, 2021, 02:15:26 PM
E & S are BOTH in motion :popcorn:

You're getting warmer, roscoe.  We'll have you writing:  S revolves around E in no time  :laugh1:
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Incredulous on April 27, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
You're getting warmer, roscoe.  We'll have you writing:  S revolves around E in no time  :laugh1:
Don’t push him too hard 🌝
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Ladislaus on April 27, 2021, 05:43:04 PM
I don't want to derail this thread, but I have to throw in that I'm extremely sympathetic with Flat Earth theory and have read a lot of evidence that seems to lean in that direction, and a lot of evidence that NASA has been lying to us, the locking down of the Antarctic, lack of any real pictures of the earth (and moon) from space when they have the technology (they use CGI by their own admission).  I could go on for a long time about evidence that I've never seen explained by globe earth theorists.  In that case, the issue with the entire Universe revolving around the earth once every 24 hours goes away.  Nevertheless, that is not preposterous at all.  Assuming a globe earth, imagine that an ant is on the surface of the earth.  How fast is that ant going relative to it own unit of measure.  It rotates around thousands of miles in one 24-hour period and doesn't feel it.  Scientists claim that the galaxies and solar systems are moving through space at breakneck speed but don't feel the G-forces.  So if we don't feel any movement of the earth when we're spinning at 1,000 MPH, and then flying through space at like 70,000 MPH ... with all that we can have butterflies fluttering around unmolested ... then why is it a problem for the entire universe to rotate around the earthy once every 24 hours?
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: gladius_veritatis on April 27, 2021, 05:50:40 PM
I'm extremely sympathetic with Flat Earth theory and have read a lot of evidence that seems to lean in that direction, and a lot of evidence that NASA has been lying to us, the locking down of the Antarctic, lack of any real pictures of the earth (and moon) from space when they have the technology (they use CGI by their own admission).
Yessir.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 27, 2021, 05:53:46 PM
  Scientists claim that the galaxies and solar systems are moving through space at breakneck speed but don't feel the G-forces.  So if we don't feel any movement of the earth when we're spinning at 1,000 MPH, and then flying through space at like 70,000 MPH ... with all that we can have butterflies fluttering around unmolested ... then why is it a problem for the entire universe to rotate around the earthy once every 24 hours?

Good question. I notice nobody has jumped to answer mine either.

Quote
If you know of any decent direct rebuttals to geocentrism, by someone who can behave in a becoming manner, I would be interested in viewing or reading it.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Seraphina on April 27, 2021, 07:52:26 PM
I don't want to derail this thread, but I have to throw in that I'm extremely sympathetic with Flat Earth theory and have read a lot of evidence that seems to lean in that direction, and a lot of evidence that NASA has been lying to us, the locking down of the Antarctic, lack of any real pictures of the earth (and moon) from space when they have the technology (they use CGI by their own admission).  I could go on for a long time about evidence that I've never seen explained by globe earth theorists.  In that case, the issue with the entire Universe revolving around the earth once every 24 hours goes away.  Nevertheless, that is not preposterous at all.  Assuming a globe earth, imagine that an ant is on the surface of the earth.  How fast is that ant going relative to it own unit of measure.  It rotates around thousands of miles in one 24-hour period and doesn't feel it.  Scientists claim that the galaxies and solar systems are moving through space at breakneck speed but don't feel the G-forces.  So if we don't feel any movement of the earth when we're spinning at 1,000 MPH, and then flying through space at like 70,000 MPH ... with all that we can have butterflies fluttering around unmolested ... then why is it a problem for the entire universe to rotate around the earthy once every 24 hours?
I knew enough geology, astronomy, cosmology to pass my undergraduate year classes.  With these severe limitations in mind, I do think the flat earth idea is fascinating, but also consider there could be infinite dimensions to physical reality, which means everybody in this life is an idiot.  Rocket scientists know as much as Joe the plumber.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 28, 2021, 12:06:45 PM
Happy to be of service.  

FWIW, the theology of Aristotle is natural theology, i.e. it does not have anything to do with Divine Revelation.  God and things related to God -- i.e., theological matters -- can be limited to only what can be known by unaided reason, OR be expanded to include what can be known by reason illumined by supernatural Faith; clearly, Aristotle was limited to the former.

Again thanks for that Gladius.
Now that is interesting, I never knew there was a natural theology. I suppose you could say it was the study of the 'natural law.' If I am not mistaken, doesn't Catholicism recognise the importance of human beings obeying the natural law, a 'right and wrong' inherent in all human beings? For those whose lives are lived totally ignorant of Jesus Christ, like the many that lived before His time on Earth and the foundation of His Church, or those who lived in places removed from knowledge of the true God, won't they be judged on how they adhered to the natural law?
I once read of tribes-of people found in jungles etc., who adhered to a one-husband, one-wife 'natural law.' I found that very interesting. 
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 28, 2021, 01:18:35 PM
I don't want to derail this thread, but I have to throw in that I'm extremely sympathetic with Flat Earth theory and have read a lot of evidence that seems to lean in that direction, and a lot of evidence that NASA has been lying to us, the locking down of the Antarctic, lack of any real pictures of the earth (and moon) from space when they have the technology (they use CGI by their own admission).  I could go on for a long time about evidence that I've never seen explained by globe earth theorists.  In that case, the issue with the entire Universe revolving around the earth once every 24 hours goes away.  Nevertheless, that is not preposterous at all.  Assuming a globe earth, imagine that an ant is on the surface of the earth.  How fast is that ant going relative to it own unit of measure.  It rotates around thousands of miles in one 24-hour period and doesn't feel it.  Scientists claim that the galaxies and solar systems are moving through space at breakneck speed but don't feel the G-forces.  So if we don't feel any movement of the earth when we're spinning at 1,000 MPH, and then flying through space at like 70,000 MPH ... with all that we can have butterflies fluttering around unmolested ... then why is it a problem for the entire universe to rotate around the earthy once every 24 hours?

Your not derailing the thread Ladislaus, it is part of the wider debate. The first thing one has to consider in this geocentric debate is that God created the universe to do what it does. Thus any argument from 'science' that says this cannot be that way because of speed or something else is not impossible to God. I wonder are there any atheists who are geocentrists? I bet not.

Now the flat-Earth theory depends on too many conspiracy theories. The main one of course is that there are no real photos of a curved Earth, or of a global Earth as seen from space. For 50 years, men in many different countries, not just NASA, have sent rockets up into the sky, placed things on the moon and Mars, put satellites up there so that we can send instant messages from all around the world to CIF in an instant, but there is a world-wide conspiracy not to let anyone see the Earth is flat. In other words, not one whistle-blower in the world ever told the truth and became famous for it. That is a little far-fetched.

Yes I know their flat Earth is so positioned so as to make it look like a globe that causes the moon to go from bright to not bright over a month or so in a global way, and eclipses of the sun and moon also look like the Earth is a globe. They have even come up with a reason why half on a flat Earth only see northern stars, while others only see a southern sky of stars. But all these things are better understood on a global Earth like every other body visible in the sky. I always saw Flat-earthers as undermining a geocentric one as revealed by God.

As for the effects of speed on the Earth, well there is one big one, the Coriolis effect.

In 1835 a French mathematician by the name of Gaspard de Coriolis (1792-1843) recognised and measured this inertial field that caused many different effects all around the Earth. Now called the ‘Coriolis Effect’ or the ‘Coriolis Force.’ it means that on the Earth’s surface, using the Equator as the fixed neutral point, bodies moving north in the northern hemisphere tend to veer to the right (east), such as the Atlantic gulf stream, while bodies moving south in the southern hemisphere tend to veer to their left (east). The extent of this deflection depends on the distance from the Equator where the effect is almost zero. Knowledge of the Coriolis Effect has now become crucial in the sciences of meteorology, ballistics, satellite dynamics, geology and oceanography.

They say this effect is caused by the Earth's rotation, but geocentrists say it is caused by the rotation of the universe around the Earth. Now this effect, credited to a 1,000 mph rotation, can cause the above, Why doesn't an orbiting Earth at 67,000mph cause a much greater effect? But consider this also. The Coriolas effect is EASTWARD, that is, WITH the turn of the Earth. Now something rotating should leave its effect behind it, not ahead of it yes? In geocentrism, the universe turns WESTWARDS that shouls leave an effect behind it as the Coriolis Effect shows. 

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Mr G on April 28, 2021, 02:04:59 PM
October 1st & 2nd 2021
Douglas County Fairgrounds
Castle Rock, CO—Kirk Hall
Robert Sungenis will discuss his books:
• Galileo Was Wrong, the Church was Right!
• Scientific Heresies: Their Effect on the Church
• The Geocentric Universe of St. Hildegard


PDFs attached below
Is anyone here (Cathinfo members) planning on going?
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Stanley N on April 28, 2021, 02:55:35 PM
They say this effect is caused by the Earth's rotation, but geocentrists say it is caused by the rotation of the universe around the Earth. Now this effect, credited to a 1,000 mph rotation, can cause the above, Why doesn't an orbiting Earth at 67,000mph cause a much greater effect? 
What does the the Coriolis effect have to do with the speed at the surface due to rotation?
To help you out: what is the Coriolis effect on someone standing on the surface of the earth?
Quote
But consider this also. The Coriolas effect is EASTWARD, that is, WITH the turn of the Earth. Now something rotating should leave its effect behind it, not ahead of it yes? In geocentrism, the universe turns WESTWARDS that shouls leave an effect behind it as the Coriolis Effect shows. 
Is this meant to be an argument for geocentrism or against the mainstream view?
Does it mean a westward Coriolis effect would be an argument against the geocentric system?
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Stanley N on April 28, 2021, 03:44:22 PM
Quote
Do you think the Sungenis video accurately represents and fairly rebuts points in the CHL video?

The rebuttal video is someone reading the first part of Dr. Sungenis' paper which is attached to my previous posts (replies 25 & 26).

...

I have watched the first CHL video twice and I do think Sungenis makes a fair, although brief, rebuttal. It would take volumes to address all the claims that CHL makes.

Your quote missed including my last sentence; I duplicate and reaffirm it here:
A substantial amount of the rebuttal video involves the narrator saying CHL doesn't know about a modern geocentric model (apparently called neo-Tychonic).

But that's simply wrong. The CHL video does in fact talk about the neo-Tychonic model starting at about the 11:45 mark (where Apollo had the video start). Before 11:45, the CHL video is going over other geocentric models and the reasons/observations they were abandoned. In discussing each of these other geocentric models, CHL says they didn't work for some reason X. And the rebuttal claims CHL doesn't know about the neo-Tychonic model that allegedly handles X.

I find that sort of rebuttal very poor because:
1) CHL does indeed discuss the neo-Tychonic model (with specific reference to Sungenis), so he obviously knows about it,
2) it seems to me to misrepresent the structure of CHL's video, and
3) this approach doesn't really address CHL's criticisms of the neo-Tychonic model

What is your take on this?

Additionally, the rebuttal video/text claims:
Quote
Conversely, heliocentrism has the problem of
explaining why the Earth’s rotation does not decay but is always 23 hours, 56 minute and 4.7
seconds,
Is this actually claiming in mainstream science the rotation of the earth doesn't vary?

The rotation of the earth definitely varies as these variations in rotation rates are used in space observations. I get the impression that geocentrists are not really aware of all the effects things like precession, nutation, and elasticity of the earth have on space observation. In mainstream science these are local effects and are corrected for.

But if the earth is not rotating or moving, these effects would need to be variations in the movement of the universe around the earth.

So for a geocentrist, every other planet and celestial body follows mainstream physics, but the earth doesn't. Yet the universe moves in a multitude of large and small ways in just the right amounts so that all effects are the same as if the earth moved following mainstream physics like every other planet or celestial body.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Emile on April 28, 2021, 06:09:44 PM
Quote
A substantial amount of the rebuttal video involves the narrator saying CHL doesn't know about a modern geocentric model (apparently called neo-Tychonic).
 But that's simply wrong. The CHL video does in fact talk about the neo-Tychonic model starting at about the 11:45 mark (where Apollo had the video start). Before 11:45, the CHL video is going over other geocentric models and the reasons/observations they were abandoned. In discussing each of these other geocentric models, CHL says they didn't work for some reason X. And the rebuttal claims CHL doesn't know about the neo-Tychonic model that allegedly handles X.

As I stated earlier the rebuttal video is only in response to the first video posted by CHL (2012), which I linked in reply # 32 . The video posted by Apollo is number 10 in CHL's series (posted in 2014) to which Sungenis never made a response that I know of. The paper, by Sungenis, that I attached to two of my posts deals with CHL 1-7 and was published in 2013. As far as I am aware Sungenis never bothered to write further in response to CHL (which, after listening to CHL's blasphemy, I don't blame Sungenis a bit!)


Quote
Q What is your take on this?

My take is that it seems you are trying to apply a rebuttal to CHL video 1 against a different video, CHL 10. See reply #32 (BTW I am accusing you of a mistake, not bad will for doing so)



Quote
Conversely, heliocentrism has the problem of
    explaining why the Earth’s rotation does not decay but is always 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.7 seconds.
Is this actually claiming in mainstream science the rotation of the earth doesn't vary?

No, it is not denying variation, it is asking why, in a heliocentric model, Earth's rotational speed does not continually decrease. In other words what started and what keeps the Earth spinning? 1000 years ago was a day longer? Will a day be shorter 1000 from hence?
Are we to find an explanation like this more plausible?

https://www.universetoday.com/14491/why-does-the-earth-rotate/

"Over the course of a few hundred million years, all of the material in the Solar System gathered together into planets, asteroids, moons and comets. Then the powerful radiation and solar winds from the young Sun cleared out everything that was left over.
Without any unbalanced forces acting on them, the inertia of the Sun and the planets have kept them spinning for billions of years.
And they’ll continue to do so until they collide with some object, billions or even trillions of years in the future."

Quote
But if the earth is not rotating or moving, these effects would need to be variations in the movement of the universe around the earth.
Why is that a problem? Incredible masses and distances are part of either model. "Wobble" would seem to be a reasonable explanation.

What I referenced above, "Over the course of a few hundred million years...", is why I bother to study things like geocentrism. Just like evolution, helio-centrism seeks to detach us from God, His creation, and His special love for man.

Sagan exemplifies the view Helio-centrism would have us take:

"Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Stanley N on April 28, 2021, 07:41:20 PM
My take is that it seems you are trying to apply a rebuttal to CHL video 1 against a different video, CHL 10. See reply #32 (BTW I am accusing you of a mistake, not bad will for doing so)

That would explain why the rebuttal video seemed to have little relation to the CHL video Apollo posted.

Quote
No, it is not denying variation, it is asking why, in a heliocentric model, Earth's rotational speed does not continually decrease. In other words what started and what keeps the Earth spinning? 1000 years ago was a day longer? Will a day be shorter 1000 from hence?

If your focus is on "continually", several things can affect the length of a day and so changes are not linear. But the length of a day has been carefully measured and as a trend, yes, the day is getting longer.

Quote
Why is that a problem? Incredible masses and distances are part of either model. "Wobble" would seem to be a reasonable explanation.

I mentioned one issue: for everything but planet earth, everyone, whether geocentrist or pagan or something else, uses the same mainstream physics. but geocentrists would say that planet earth follows entirely different physics which nevertheless produces the same effects as everyone else predicts using mainstream physics.

Quote
... helio-centrism seeks to detach us from God, His creation, and His special love for man.

Whether God's creation is geocentric or not, understanding reality shouldn't lead away from God, should it? If that happens, it's more an issue of someone's will, not the reality itself.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 29, 2021, 06:06:04 AM
What does the the Coriolis effect have to do with the speed at the surface due to rotation?
To help you out: what is the Coriolis effect on someone standing on the surface of the earth?

Is this meant to be an argument for geocentrism or against the mainstream view?
Does it mean a westward Coriolis effect would be an argument against the geocentric system?

https://scijinks.gov/coriolis/ (https://scijinks.gov/coriolis/)

The answer to your first question Stanley is on the website. Science has a way of making all effects comply with the heliocentric order.  

If inertia causes this FORCE, is it caused by the Earth's rotating inertia or the inertia caused by a rotating universe, that is the question.

But now let us use simple logic. Something rotating should leave any effect trailing behind it. Throw a ball from a train and the ball will go behind it, not in front of it as the video has it doing. Throw a ball from a moving car today, as you can do, and see where it goes. So which theory has the ball moving behind it? The geocentric theory moving East to West does, the heliocentric one moving west to east does not.

It is an argument against the claim it is a heliocentric rotation causes ocean currents to veer eastward. A geocentric inertia makes better sense to me anyway.

There is no westward Coriolis force.

The Earth is like a rotating door, all parts of it get to the same place at the same time. So, how can one use a different speed on any part of the door as having an effect on the inner parts of the same door? Maybe Aristotle or Aquinas might be able to tell us.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Struthio on April 29, 2021, 02:34:33 PM
They say this effect is caused by the Earth's rotation, but geocentrists say it is caused by the rotation of the universe around the Earth.

The kinematics of the Coriolis-force is beyond dispute between heliocentrists, geocentrists, and relativists.


Now this effect, credited to a 1,000 mph rotation, can cause the above, Why doesn't an orbiting Earth at 67,000mph cause a much greater effect?

The supposed orbit of the earth around the sun is a much bigger orbit with much bigger radius and much less curvature. The absolute value of the Coriolis-force is proportional to the curvature.


But consider this also. The Coriolas effect is EASTWARD, that is, WITH the turn of the Earth. Now something rotating should leave its effect behind it, not ahead of it yes? In geocentrism, the universe turns WESTWARDS that shouls leave an effect behind it as the Coriolis Effect shows.


(https://earthhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Coriolis-Effect-0-290x300.png)

(assuming a rotating earth)

The molecules of the trade winds represented by the red arrows are moving to the equator, the circuмference of their orbit around the earth's axis (together with the rotating earth) becomes longer. Hence, they would have to increase the orbital component of their speed to make it once around the earth's axis per day. But nobody accelerates them. That's why these are "left behind" by the rotating earth.

The molecules of the westerlies represented by the blue arrows are moving away from the tropics, the circuмference of their orbit around the earth's axis (together with the rotating earth) becomes shorter. Hence, they would have to decrease the orbital component of their speed to make it once around the earth's axis per day. But nobody deaccelerates them. That's why these "leave behind" the rotating earth.

The polar easterlies should be in red, not blue.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Stanley N on April 29, 2021, 02:47:36 PM
https://scijinks.gov/coriolis/ (https://scijinks.gov/coriolis/)
The answer to your first question Stanley is on the website. Science has a way of making all effects comply with the heliocentric order. 

That website appears geared to children. Like most explanations to children, it's not exactly wrong, but the explanation is limited and imprecise.

The answer is the Coriolis effect on earth has nothing to do with the speed of the surface of the earth.
Someone standing still on the earth's surface undergoes no Coriolis effect.

Quote
There is no westward Coriolis force.

But if there were, would that be a problem for geocentrists? Yes or no?

Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: Struthio on April 29, 2021, 02:50:04 PM
In the geocentrist view (assuming a Machian universe) the rotation of the masses of all the stars of the universe leads to curvature of the trajectories of the molecules of the winds.

The relativist (Einsteinian) view, which is not truely Machian, but somewhat similar, in this case curiously reduces to the Newtonian view. The effects of the rotation of the masses of all the stars (generally relevant in Relativity) vanishes, and the situation is as described in my previous post.
Title: Re: Geo-Centrism Conference
Post by: cassini on April 30, 2021, 06:57:47 AM
This guy is not only a blasphemous pig, mocking the Sacred Scriptures (thus revealing his true agenda ... perhaps he's a practicing sơdơmite?) but he's an imbecile.  He's showing mathematical angles between earth and the sun.  Is this moron not aware that all position and "maths" (that he keeps touting) is relative between the two objects.  Planetarium software is known to use geocentric math ... because in a lot of ways it's much simpler.  Their only argument from "maths" is the assertion that it looks simpler or more elegant.  But the whole notion that the earth is simply rotating in a nice elliptical pattern around a stationary sun is utter "Bollocks" ... to use this moron's favorite term.

So this low-grade moron distorts the geocentric movement by speeding up the rotation of the universe around the earth to a ridiculous speed (as opposed to taking place in 24 hours) to make it look stupid (each cycle that he makes whip around the earth 5 times per second actually takes 24 hours).  Then he contrasts that with the "simple elegance" of the elliptical motions.  But that shows him to be a moron, for that simple motion is absolute BOLLOCKS.


Quoting from this video:  "The old heliocentric model of our solar system ... planets rotating around the sun ... is not only boring, but also incorrect."

Let him take out his protractor and measure that one.  And then I saw an article from NASA saying that, given the movement of the solar system within the galaxy, and then the galaxy through the universe, it's even much more complicated than that.  But given all the mass in the universe, it's absolutely unclear which forces are acting on what other forces, and which are the stronger ones.

So much for the "simplicity" of the elliptical pattern so that students can be brainwashed into making models of the solar system with styrofoam balls attached to a bigger ball with sticks.  That is the level of this moron's thinking, and his hatred for Sacred Scripture are what turn him into a moron.

So this great genius starts with a strawman by picking on some poor guy making a youtube video ... taking on the "heavy hitters" as it were.

Of all the posts on this most interesting thread, the above has to be the best. At this stage, I am losing sight as to who are the geocentrists and who are the heliocentrists.
If it were not for the Galileo case, far fewer would be interested in the subject, especially among Catholics. There are two sides to this 'debate,' best described here by Cardinal Bellarmine in 1615.

'Nor may it be answered that this [geocentrism] is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’

Here then we see this is a battle between the Word of God and the beliefs of human reasoning.
Now when a saint like Bellarmine, credited as one of the greatest theologians of all Church history, compares belief in a geocentric revelation in Scripture to the virgin birth of Christ, that is how serious this subject is.

Today, probably 99% of debate is centred on human reasoning, and 1% on belief based on biblical revelation. Since 1741, popes and churchmen lost faith in the Revelation and in 1820 abandoned that aspect of the matter and even dismissed the papal decree of 1616, one defended by Pope Urban VIII in 1633.

We now know that human science agrees relativity prevails in the universe and human science cannot prove nor falsify either order. This means that churchmen since 1820, especially the elect, who abandoned the literal geocentrism in Scripture, one held by all the Fathers (which the Councils of Trent and Vatican I said cannot be denied) believing on it been proven wrong by science, were responsible for causing a reformation in the Church. This reformation of Scripture led the Church into Modernism as history recalls, wherein 'Biblical scholars,' around 1850 began to 'modernise' Scripture and its understanding from a once supernatural understanding to a secular one based on human reasoning. Pope Benedict XVI said in his resigning speech to Catholic priests that Vatican II was called to acknowledge the mistake of the Catholic Church in the Galileo case. Vatican II's Gaudium et Spes no. 36 condemned all those who defended the geocentrism of Scripture as leading many into conflict between faith and science.

So, when popes themselves abandoned the geocentrism revealed literally in Scripture, all those few Biblical geocentrists that remained had to argue on the basis of what they call science. Nowadays, that same science admits it cannot prove H or G. Yet, as we saw on this thread, there are those who still argue for heliocentrism based on science..

Now if what we were debating was true science, then maybe we could decide the matter on evidence, for the more evidence there is for one theory is far more likely the fact than the other. Alas the heliocentrists have invented science that they try to use when in fact it is theory and assumption. Newton's universal gravitation theory is taken today as a scientific fact which it is not. That blasphemous video Ladislause referred to uses it like it was a scientific fact as well as 'the bulge of the Earth.' Now I have investigated the history of the Earth's 'bulge' and found Domenico Cassini did his own measurements and found no bulge butfound it has a slight egg-shape to the Earth. Newton's theory also depends on Kepler's elipse, but Cassini also found this too was only a compromise as orbits are Cassinian ovals that are related to Phi and electromagnetism.

As the history of science progressed, it all came down to one last test, the M&M experiment, a test that went on for 50 years. It failed to find evidence for an orbiting Earth, but evidence for as possible inertial rotation around the Earth that could be caused by a rotating Earth or rotating universe as physicists have agreed. But heliocentrism needed the goose and the gander to be true, whereas geocentrism only needed the gander. And that is why Einstein tried to dismiss the geocentric gander by way of his STR, a theory falsified by stellar aberration.