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Author Topic: Future of the SSPX  (Read 728 times)

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Offline FarmerWife

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Future of the SSPX
« on: May 08, 2025, 02:47:27 PM »
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  • With the new Pope elected, what's is the future of the SSPX if this 'Pope' is just a carbon copy of Bergoglio? What if there is no reabsorption/reconcilliation of the Neo-SSPX and they end up not electing new bishops? And what happens if there is a merging of the neo-SSPX, they just become the Indult, right? And then a liberal Pope can just shut down TLMs again?

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #1 on: May 08, 2025, 02:58:29 PM »
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  • With the new Pope elected, what's is the future of the SSPX if this 'Pope' is just a carbon copy of Bergoglio? What if there is no reabsorption/reconcilliation of the Neo-SSPX and they end up not electing new bishops? And what happens if there is a merging of the neo-SSPX, they just become the Indult, right? And then a liberal Pope can just shut down TLMs again?

    If the SSPX doesn't do a HARD U-turn back to the position and attitude of Archbishop Lefebvre (their founder), they are lost as an organization.
    And such a conversion would take a miracle at this point. It's not just one or two men that have lost their way; it's 100% of the leadership and a good portion of the priests in the organization.
    Furthermore, they even started forming new priests differently in 2004. So a much larger % of the younger priests are of the liberal orientation.

    The takeaway? You need to support INDEPENDENT Traditional Catholic chapels, any chapel that operates according to the manner of the Traditional Movement from the very beginning in 1970. You need to prepare for the day when your SSPX chapel becomes hot garbage, useless as a "Traditional chapel". That day is closer than you think. You have a great SSPX priest at your chapel now? He isn't going to live forever. The priest in San Antonio for example is in his mid 70's. When he gets replaced, it's almost certain his replacement will be ordained after 2005, and thus he will be one of the "new crop" with the new, soft-on-Vatican II formation.

    Go ahead and attend Mass where you must -- but don't be stupid about the future. Don't be all comfy and relaxed in a boat that is actively taking on water! You need to make preparations for what you will do WHEN that boat sinks.

    What does it take for a chapel to be not garbage?

    1. ALOOFNESS. No truck (commerce, dealings) with the Conciliar Church. Certainly no efforts to involve Novus priests, bishops, etc. in your ceremonies and parish life.
    2. FIDELITY. Offer the Tridentine Mass and all other sacraments with no apologies. "Do Catholicism" like it's 1950.
    3. VALIDITY. Traditional training for the priests, and ordained by a Traditional bishop ordained in the old Rite.
    4. PRIORITY. God comes before Man. Don't worry about permission from the apostate material heretics in Rome. Traditional Catholics haven't, since the very beginning of the movement in the immediate aftermath of Vatican II.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: May 08, 2025, 03:11:46 PM »
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  • We'll see.  Even though theologically he's a carbon-copy of Jorge, he could make various tactical maneuvers that would allow reabsorption of SSPX.

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: May 08, 2025, 03:20:17 PM »
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  • My bet is that Fr. Pagliarani will be invited to Rome once the dust settles (he might take Bp. Fellay with him as his trusted consigliere, or even the "wiser" Fr. Schmidberger). Maybe next year. New concessions will be made, but the boys are not in a hurry. And the new bishops will be given to them.

    Offline Clare67

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2025, 03:30:24 PM »
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  • Why do so many traditionalists assume the Vatican's number one priority is the SSPX?  I seriously doubt Pope Leo XIV even knows much about the SSPX considering he spent so much time in Peru.  

    The only reason Pope Francis bothered with the SSPX at the beginning of his pontificate is because Pope Benedict XVI was still alive and Benedict wanted them reconciled.  Benedict had a personal stake in the matter (not Francis) because he knew Archbishop Lefebvre and was part of those "negotiations" which blew up and Benedict always wanted to fix that.  

    But, honestly, the SSPX is "yesterday's news."  They are not a priority, by any means.  Most bishops, cardinals couldn't care less about that SSPX nor do they even think about them.  They have bigger fish to fry.  


    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #5 on: May 08, 2025, 03:32:36 PM »
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  •  Benedict had a personal stake in the matter (not Francis) because he knew Archbishop Lefebvre and was part of those "negotiations" which blew up and Benedict always wanted to fix that. 
    Really? Do you REALLY believe Ratzinger wanted to "fix" anything?????:facepalm:

    Offline Clare67

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #6 on: May 08, 2025, 03:42:57 PM »
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  • Really? Do you REALLY believe Ratzinger wanted to "fix" anything?????:facepalm:
    Yes.  I do believe that.  Ratizinger believed in the seriousness of excommunication which the SSPX and Archbishop Lefebvre had incurred. 
    So :facepalm: right back atcha!

      

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #7 on: May 08, 2025, 04:16:42 PM »
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  • The Interregnum continues...

    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #8 on: May 08, 2025, 04:19:50 PM »
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  • The Interregnum continues...



    Yep.  In a way, I'm glad.  Had they elected a Traditionalist, say a Sarah, who came completely around ... the question would have been whether these were even material Cardinals and could therefore legitimately elect.

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #9 on: May 08, 2025, 04:43:48 PM »
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  • So, I'm thinking that one of the first orders of business is for Prevost to deal with his trad problem. Does he walk back tradtitiones custodes, and allow for the Catholic Faith to continue growing in the novus ordo cancer? Or does he carry on with the extermination campaign? If the latter, and if he is tricksy, and wants to fool indulters into thinking they got Benny 2.0, nevertheless he has a real problem on his hands. How to exterminate and not alienate?  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #10 on: May 08, 2025, 05:10:26 PM »
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  • I think it depends on how much time they think they have left before God sends them packing and restores the Church.

    Do they play a long game to neutralize them or go for the quick kill?

    If I were them, I'd probably offer to personally "consecrate" a "bishop" for them (without any SSPX bishops co-consecrating) and "ordain" a "priest" or two.

    Other than that, I'd keep them on the fence where they'd be partially-regularized but not completely.  Why?  Because that's just enough of a deterrent to keep some people away but little enough a deterrent where some liberal types would find their way there and inject their Modernist thinking.


    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #11 on: May 08, 2025, 05:25:17 PM »
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  • I think it depends on how much time they think they have left before God sends them packing and restores the Church.

    Do they play a long game to neutralize them or go for the quick kill?

    If I were them, I'd probably offer to personally "consecrate" a "bishop" for them (without any SSPX bishops co-consecrating) and "ordain" a "priest" or two.

    Other than that, I'd keep them on the fence where they'd be partially-regularized but not completely.  Why?  Because that's just enough of a deterrent to keep some people away but little enough a deterrent where some liberal types would find their way there and inject their Modernist thinking.

    Would you agree with me that there will come a point in time when they are less and less in control of both means and outcomes? In other words, that there will come a time when God much more directly steers things towards their own demise, and they cannot stop it? 

    Offline anonymouscatholicus

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #12 on: May 08, 2025, 05:42:36 PM »
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  • And what happens if there is a merging of the neo-SSPX, they just become the Indult, right? And then a liberal Pope can just shut down TLMs again?
    I don't see how this is not the case already. They allow novus ordo in their ranks to simulate the Masses and hear invalid confessions. They hardly preach against the errors of Vatican II anymore. They were dead silent when Bergoglio was imposing the jibby-jabby. Heck, some people from FSSP were louder to cry out the truth. Hate to break it to you, but it's not when it happens. It happened and the best part is that good amount of people don't see it, don't want to see it or simply don't care. There is not much to shut. It creates more chaos this way. 

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 01:08:06 AM »
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  • Why do so many traditionalists assume the Vatican's number one priority is the SSPX?  I seriously doubt Pope Leo XIV even knows much about the SSPX considering he spent so much time in Peru. 

    The only reason Pope Francis bothered with the SSPX at the beginning of his pontificate is because Pope Benedict XVI was still alive and Benedict wanted them reconciled.  Benedict had a personal stake in the matter (not Francis) because he knew Archbishop Lefebvre and was part of those "negotiations" which blew up and Benedict always wanted to fix that. 

    But, honestly, the SSPX is "yesterday's news."  They are not a priority, by any means.  Most bishops, cardinals couldn't care less about that SSPX nor do they even think about them.  They have bigger fish to fry. 
    The Devil's biggest fish to fry in this world is the Church.
    The SSPX still is the most substantial continuation of that Church in terms of preserving the Faith, Liturgy and sacraments to give glory to God and lead souls to Heaven.
    It is still the most important strategic target for the enemies of God. They will want to complete the work they have begun.
    Their efforts are ultimately in vain, of course, as there will always be a remnant to ensure that the gates of Hell do not prevail.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Future of the SSPX
    « Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 05:29:42 AM »
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  • The Devil's biggest fish to fry in this world is the Church.
    The SSPX still is the most substantial continuation of that Church in terms of preserving the Faith, Liturgy and sacraments to give glory to God and lead souls to Heaven.
    It is still the most important strategic target for the enemies of God. They will want to complete the work they have begun.
    Their efforts are ultimately in vain, of course, as there will always be a remnant to ensure that the gates of Hell do not prevail.
    ^^This.

     "The devil don't need to work on those he already has, it's the ones who are trying that he will always be going after."
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse