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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Raoul76 on October 29, 2009, 09:46:28 PM
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Belloc, you brought up that CM was skeptical of Fatima in another thread... That is worth discussing. There are lots of Americans out there with a cold war mentality who are all about "converting Russia," blind to the Bolshevik Jєωs that run their own country. You might call these people the Fultonians because they seem to have taken their marching orders from Fulton Sheen, even though Bishop Sheen is on record saying things like this about John XXIII:
"He opened the doors to the Church and brought the Church out into the world... Brought the world into himself, with those great big arms of his, that were almost like those great columns of Bernini, except that they were flesh, and he could in a certain sense embrace all humanity... And this was the man who made men love one another -- that was his contemplata. He first came. Come, come to me all ye who labor and are burdened. He did, he came and he went. Because he had an idea, not just an action that turned into busybodism, as it always does when one lacks the master image. This spirit is magnificent, but who are most responsible for these ideas? Who? Secular-minded men? I will not give you the three names at once. First one is John XXIII. Who did more for our love of humanity today than this man? Who? Auguste Comte with his supposed love of humanity never wrote a line comparable to John's love of the poor. He opened the council, brought the world into it, Protestants, Orthodox, Buddhists, Hindus, communists, everyone was welcome..."
During the latter portion of this weird, psychedelic speech, there is a caption underneath him that says "Humanity -- Science -- World Involvement." Creepy.
Well, here he is showing he's part of the plot. Surprise surprise. Raoul76's paranoia proves right on target yet again. It's a sad statement about our times that the farther you can can go into extreme paranoia, the closer you will be to the truth. But it's simple common sense that you don't get on TV without being vetted by the Jєωs first.
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Fatima was a diversion from the True Faith. The Infallibles bought it hook line and sinker. We had a great orator, Fr. Coughlin who correctly warned the public about two demons , Hitler and Stalin. Pope Pius XII used his influence to take Coughlin out of action. Talking about the Vatican killing spirit, Coughlin had a Catholic revival speaking to the largest radio audience ever! & from Detroit no less. Look at Detroit now. See the pattern : no good deed goes unpunished, especially from the Vatican.
It is a shame Bishop Sheen went down the tubes. He had a powerful impact in the 50's. Supporting the party line is dangerous to the soul. One of my favorite Sheen lines is that it takes live bodies to swim against the current. Dead bodies float out to sea. How many live bodies do we have today? I know I sound like a broken record, but 139 years of pollution has killed off any real resistance.
To sum up on a good note, I heard a Catholic Radio program today that had a few good people fighting the abortion scene. This guys on the radio said that he thinks the only real bishops are the ones you see protesting at the abortion mills. So in spite of all this Fatima, and Novus Ordo pollution, a handful of noble souls survive to meet the challenges of today.
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and earlier today, I asekd in another thread who would Raoul calumate against today....guess we ahve our answer, eh...
Now we will see his insane little brain draw the following conlcusions:
1.Sheen somehow was a Jєω
2. an unconverted Jєω
3. Sheen secretly was a freemason
4. Sheen was into the occult
5. Sheen hates Catholics
6.Sheen will not just say "thats what it means, thats what it says" to any docuмent of the Church, much like a Prot does the bible (this is an ongoing favorite of Raoul and his mentot, CM-both functional Prots delusionally thinking they are Catholics)
ready boys and girls?? :popcorn: :cheers:
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Belloc, you brought up that CM was skeptical of Fatima in another thread... That is worth discussing. There are lots of Americans out there with a cold war mentality who are all about "converting Russia," blind to the Bolshevik Jєωs that run their own country.
Terrible is USA is, Our Lady was calling for Russia to be converted, not USA, nαzι Germany, Timbaktu.....Russia, thats what she said.period. Cold war started roughyl in 1945, Fatima 1917....math does not add up, raoul....no take your meds...and do some research before your disgusting calumny against Sheen.....would ask you to repent, but hell, we know you do not recognize any priestly authority...functional Prot.....
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Fatima was a diversion from the True Faith. The Infallibles bought it hook line and sinker. We had a great orator, Fr. Coughlin who correctly warned the public about two demons , Hitler and Stalin. Pope Pius XII used his influence to take Coughlin out of action. Talking about the Vatican killing spirit, Coughlin had a Catholic revival speaking to the largest radio audience ever! & from Detroit no less. Look at Detroit now. See the pattern : no good deed goes unpunished, especially from the Vatican.
It is a shame Bishop Sheen went down the tubes. He had a powerful impact in the 50's. Supporting the party line is dangerous to the soul. One of my favorite Sheen lines is that it takes live bodies to swim against the current. Dead bodies float out to sea. How many live bodies do we have today? I know I sound like a broken record, but 139 years of pollution has killed off any real resistance.
To sum up on a good note, I heard a Catholic Radio program today that had a few good people fighting the abortion scene. This guys on the radio said that he thinks the only real bishops are the ones you see protesting at the abortion mills. So in spite of all this Fatima, and Novus Ordo pollution, a handful of noble souls survive to meet the challenges of today.
For all the right things Coughlin said, he also said the New Deal (note, socialism) was Christ's deal and said Christ was working through Roosevelt ( a Prot and Freemason).....he flipped and flopped liek Raoul..Coughlin, some good, some bad...may he rest in peace :incense:
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Belloc, you brought up that CM was skeptical of Fatima in another thread... That is worth discussing. There are lots of Americans out there with a cold war mentality who are all about "converting Russia," blind to the Bolshevik Jєωs that run their own country. You might call these people the Fultonians because they seem to have taken their marching orders from Fulton Sheen, even though Bishop Sheen is on record saying things like this about John XXIII:
"He opened the doors to the Church and brought the Church out into the world... Brought the world into himself, with those great big arms of his, that were almost like those great columns of Bernini, except that they were flesh, and he could in a certain sense embrace all humanity... And this was the man who made men love one another -- that was his contemplata. He first came. Come, come to me all ye who labor and are burdened. He did, he came and he went. Because he had an idea, not just an action that turned into busybodism, as it always does when one lacks the master image. This spirit is magnificent, but who are most responsible for these ideas? Who? Secular-minded men? I will not give you the three names at once. First one is John XXIII. Who did more for our love of humanity today than this man? Who? Auguste Comte with his supposed love of humanity never wrote a line comparable to John's love of the poor. He opened the council, brought the world into it, Protestants, Orthodox, Buddhists, Hindus, communists, everyone was welcome..."
During the latter portion of this weird, psychedelic speech, there is a caption underneath him that says "Humanity -- Science -- World Involvement." Creepy.
Well, here he is showing he's part of the plot. Surprise surprise. Raoul76's paranoia proves right on target yet again. It's a sad statement about our times that the farther you can can go into extreme paranoia, the closer you will be to the truth. But it's simple common sense that you don't get on TV without being vetted by the Jєωs first.
Sorry, cannot view youtube at work and I do not want to have to deal with you and CM on the weekends at home, so I rarely will disturb myself on weekends going to CI (no insult meant to Chant,GV, etc).
but, given your unstable mental state and "reasoning" likely the video, for you, wil lcontain things not seen by most anyone else in the world and laregly, probably blown out of proportion......
and yes, some things do get past the "vetting Jєωs", especially as fatima is largely pushed by Church and people therin..media loves Medjegore,etc(false apparitions).......
Sorry, Raoul you cannot beleive as a Catholic does......then again, me thinks you really are not one.....FP(Functional Prot)
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Belloc, you brought up that CM was skeptical of Fatima in another thread... That is worth discussing. There are lots of Americans out there with a cold war mentality who are all about "converting Russia," blind to the Bolshevik Jєωs that run their own country. You might call these people the Fultonians because they seem to have taken their marching orders from Fulton Sheen, even though Bishop Sheen is on record saying things like this about John XXIII:
"He opened the doors to the Church and brought the Church out into the world... Brought the world into himself, with those great big arms of his, that were almost like those great columns of Bernini, except that they were flesh, and he could in a certain sense embrace all humanity... And this was the man who made men love one another -- that was his contemplata. He first came. Come, come to me all ye who labor and are burdened. He did, he came and he went. Because he had an idea, not just an action that turned into busybodism, as it always does when one lacks the master image. This spirit is magnificent, but who are most responsible for these ideas? Who? Secular-minded men? I will not give you the three names at once. First one is John XXIII. Who did more for our love of humanity today than this man? Who? Auguste Comte with his supposed love of humanity never wrote a line comparable to John's love of the poor. He opened the council, brought the world into it, Protestants, Orthodox, Buddhists, Hindus, communists, everyone was welcome..."
During the latter portion of this weird, psychedelic speech, there is a caption underneath him that says "Humanity -- Science -- World Involvement." Creepy.
Well, here he is showing he's part of the plot. Surprise surprise. Raoul76's paranoia proves right on target yet again. It's a sad statement about our times that the farther you can can go into extreme paranoia, the closer you will be to the truth. But it's simple common sense that you don't get on TV without being vetted by the Jєωs first.
Sheen was a young seminarian when Fatima happened.....no influence for yrs on public......yet, oddly, millions of Catholics beleived in Fatima nonethe less...hmm, maybe he slipped into parallel universe or something,,,,yeah thats right, aint it Raoul.....FP!
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Sheen was not perfect, that was only Christ, you and CM.....being wrong on something does not mean one is evil, damned, a Jєω, a plotter,etc.......a little discernment, please.....
Sad, calumny.......
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raoul, you or someone like you here mentioend Bella Dodd wometime ago.....well, do you know who converted Dood the the Faith?????
yes, Bishop Sheen......and he brought many more into the Fold too......hmm.......
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I do have my doubts about Fatima, Classiccom. I've also heard that about Pius XII and Coughlin -- very, very interesting.
The Cold War may have officially begun much later but 1917 was the year of the Russian Revolution which supposedly was against Western values. It was also very near to the time of the destruction of the last Catholic monarchy, the Austro-Hungarian empire, in World War I.
The error of ʝʊdɛօ-Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ had spread around the world long before the rise of the Bolsheviks in Russia. Russia was an overt form of communism -- almost a straw man, in the way the nαzιs were a straw man. An obvious evil that helped people to overlook the evil right in their own backyards.
This idea that Russia must be converted had the effect of putting Americans into a mindset where they represented the "free world" while Russia was enslaved by communism, yet our own country was founded by Freemasons, separated Church and state, etc. I still see American Catholics today who think like this; that we are the land of the free while Russia is a tyrannical state.
I don't want to insult Mary if it is a true prophecy, but I don't want to insult her by saying that she was the author of confusion either. Not to mention that it doesn't make sense that she would tell Lucy to wait until 1960 to reveal the Third Secret, unless we are to say that she somehow didn't know it would be suppressed ( yet Mary knows all ). And did Portugal keep the faith?
As for Bella Dodd, only God knows what was in her heart or if she really converted. Her conversion was in 1952 right when I say Pius XII lost the papacy... Hmm. Once a communist, always a communist? Did she simply join the Church once it had stopped being the Church, her Great Work having been accomplished?
Freemasons and communists often play that card, they say they have converted or seen the error of their ways. This actually makes them seem more trustworthy than many who were never communists -- you think, "Oh, well if they will admit to once being a communist, they must really be repentant." Not necessarily.
JPII was often praised as a great foe of communists, which I'm sure those behind the Iron Curtain found amusing, since he had free movement all over the world while real Catholics were kept under lock and key.
Don't you understand that in the Hegelian synthesis communism is hidden under names like democracy or even Catholicism? What do you think NFP is? Do you think communism is an economic system? No, it is a MINDSET and rationalism and birth control and ecuмenism are all part of it.
Pius XII had elements of communism in his writings, and after him it was full-blown in Vatican II.
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People need to stop following personalities and start following doctrine and logic and truth.
We all want heroes, we all want someone to follow and to trust. Humans have a great need of that or otherwise we feel abandoned. Unfortunately, the devil knows this weakness and uses it against us. Whether it's Abp. Lefebvre or Bishop Fulton Sheen giving us comforting fireside chats, they win your trust, and then people let their guard down. That is the mistake. They follow them into apostasy, heresy, blasphemy.
This is just the old gradualism and it is shown in the programs of Bishop Sheen. He starts out decrying communism like a Jeremiah ( while never explaining how it operates in this country, of course ) and then before you know it, a decade later, he is praising John XXIII for letting communists into the Church.
Don't forget what Christ said: TEST THE SPIRITS. Test them every second. Otherwise you are in danger of being an idolater, following the "stars" of Catholicism as blindly as some Midwestern teen follows Johnny Depp or what have you.
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People need to stop following personalities and start following doctrine and logic and truth.
Unfortunately, various people die defending the truth as they see it, and they have the "logic" and "doctrine" to back it up.
Teresa
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"I don't want to insult Mary if it is a true prophecy, but I don't want to insult her by saying that she was the author of confusion either."
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I'm sure I have been overly harsh speaking about Mary. My apologies. But if there is a Mary that leads you to Jesus, it is a safe bet there are many counterfeit Marys that leads you to the Devil. I met the latter at Bayside NY. That Mary was a big traditionalist who loved JPII & the ecu tango with the Moslems etc.
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But it's simple common sense that you don't get on TV without being vetted by the Jєωs first.
Like wow...... :shocked:
Teresa
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It is a shame Bishop Sheen went down the tubes. He had a powerful impact in the 50's. Supporting the party line is dangerous to the soul.
Even Sedevacantist Fr. Noel Barbara considered John XXIII a true Pope and wrote his reasons in careful analysis. Sheen to my knowledge was not addressing what he did not like about Vatican II, nor addressing what unfolded in the post-conciliar. He spoke piously of some lovable personality traits of a Pope. Nor is it absolutely clear that what Paul VI finally midwifed is what John would have wanted, is it?
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Sheen was just as big of a phoney as our poster Belloc. The former was close to the 32 Mason Schuler( Crystal 'Cathedral').
Schuler is an MK Ultra programmer big time.
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The v2 Belloc has said in another discussion that Catholics are real Jєωs. Why am I not surprised at this? Besides Sheen here are a few other gems from Belloc
1-- Savanarola was not a heretic
2-- St Luke was a Judaic
3-- Fr Torqumada was a Judaic
All false assertions
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Speak for your self Belloc as I am a Roman Catholic-- not a Jєω.
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JustaCatholic said:
Even Sedevacantist Fr. Noel Barbara considered John XXIII a true Pope and wrote his reasons in careful analysis. Sheen to my knowledge was not addressing what he did not like about Vatican II, nor addressing what unfolded in the post-conciliar. He spoke piously of some lovable personality traits of a Pope.
Father Noel Barbara, who I usually like, was a sedeprivationist. I'm disappointed if this is true. Perhaps John XXIII never taught heresy from the Magisterium. I'd have to see what Father Barbara wrote. But I don't consider even Pius XII a Pope because he taught NFP, and if John XXIII went along with it he was no Pope.
Sheen, as you'd know if you read the transcribed quote and watched the video, praises the "aggorniamento" of VII explicitly. Speaking rhapsodsically of how communists, Buddhists, Protestants et al. were let into the Council does not fit my definition of "pious." He also was a fan of Teilhard de Chardin. And speaking of NFP, Sheen writes the foreword to a modernist "theology" book I have that teaches it, Medical Ethics by McFadden.
And Theresa, that you are shocked when I say you don't get on the TV without the say-so of the Jєωs shocks me. My delicate sensibilities are very much offended as they often are by your posts, which are models of blissful denial. Granted, you are in Novus Ordo and some brainwashing is expected, but then why come to a traditional website and act all nonplussed to find traditional Catholics, who are for the most part aware of Jєωιѕн and Masonic perfidy?
A simple Internet search will prove this fact about Jєωιѕн control of Hollywood which is not hidden. They own and always have owned the film and television studios in America. How can any progress be made when people can't even take the time to do two minutes of research? It's not like you have to go to the library and look through microfiche. Do an Internet search, "Hollywood" and "Jєωs."
Joel Stein, L.A. Times, indulging in a little revelation of the method:
"A poll finds more Americans disagree with the statement that 'Jєωs control Hollywood.' But here's one Jєω who doesn't.
By Joel Stein
I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe "the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jєωs," down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jєωs totally run Hollywood."
They also run your so-called church as Montini was Jєωιѕн, and Wojtyla was rumored to be Jєωιѕн as well, hence the "outreach" to the Jєωs and the h0Ɩ0cαųstery and statements like "The Old Covenant has never been revoked."
But if you enjoy being taunted to your face as dumb by Jєωs and ingesting all of their lies taught to you in the ʝʊdɛօ-Freemasonic VII "church," then by all means, continue! I personally do not mind being mocked or disbelieved or even persecuted by Jєωs, as the servant is not greater than his Master, and Jesus was crucified by them -- but I will not have my soul stolen by them in the name of "charity" to my "separated brethren." I don't have brethren who reject Jesus Christ.
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And Theresa, that you are shocked when I say you don't get on the TV without the say-so of the Jєωs shocks me. My delicate sensibilities are very much offended as they often are by your posts, which are models of blissful denial. Granted, you are in Novus Ordo and some brainwashing is expected, but then why come to a traditional website and act all nonplussed to find traditional Catholics, who are for the most part aware of Jєωιѕн and Masonic perfidy?
Raoul, you're not a traditional Catholic. By your own admission, you are outside of the Catholic Church period. You seem to be just a very unhappy person. Why do you give people so much power over your emotions?
Teresa
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I think Raoul is very well meaning, but very confused and right now a reed twisting in the wind.......to and fro.....some likely bad influences on him.....
Merely supporting NFP does not make Pius XII unfit for Papacy or somehow, losing it.....NFP much misunderstood and much abused.....
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"Raoul, you're not a traditional Catholic. By your own admission, you are outside of the Catholic Church period. You seem to be just a very unhappy person. Why do you give people so much power over your emotions?
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John 11:35
And Jesus wept.
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When I was a kid (not raised in a Catholic family but ethnically Italian-American, preceding two+ generations had nothing to do with the Church, parents half-heartedly involved with Presbyterianism), I remember my father having Bp. Sheen's show going on the television. At the time I recall thinking that Sheen was a crowdpleaser, a ham actor, not anyone much worth watching.
Heard considerably more recently from NY Catholics who followed Sheen's career that many of the traditionally oriented faithful were very well aware of his eventual sellout to the NO. Although even they considered him originally a 'wonderful preacher', an 'outstanding Catholic personality', and all that jazz.
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I still enjoy Sheens tapes but I will admit I was so disappointed when I found out he followed into Vatican II, but then so did I. I left Vatican II in 1982, I like to think if Sheen lived long enough he would have left too.
But what do I know, I still have his tapes and listen to his talks. Some of them are very good, he has a gift of tongue, in my opinion.
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When I was a kid (not raised in a Catholic family but ethnically Italian-American, preceding two+ generations had nothing to do with the Church, parents half-heartedly involved with Presbyterianism), I remember my father having Bp. Sheen's show going on the television. At the time I recall thinking that Sheen was a crowdpleaser, a ham actor, not anyone much worth watching.
Heard considerably more recently from NY Catholics who followed Sheen's career that many of the traditionally oriented faithful were very well aware of his eventual sellout to the NO. Although even they considered him originally a 'wonderful preacher', an 'outstanding Catholic personality', and all that jazz.
These are my sentiments as well. I mean truly, how in the world does anyone think a Catholic speaking the truths of the faith would be number 1 in telelvision anywhere? I had just talked about Sheen to my priest lst time he visited.
And, your family is just like mine. My mothers's family is Italian, I would be the third generation here. And,like yours, they all watched Sheen faithfully, the ones that are alive still quote him. And, most of them had left the Church and found nothing odd in the fact that they had left. So, what were they learning from those television shows about being a Catholic and fufillng the duties of the Church?
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I used to listen to Sheen a lot, too, and read his works. I turned my back on him when I heard him praising Kissinger and his meditation room. Some things just turn your stomach.
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I heard him praising Kissinger and his meditation room.
That would be a problem.
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It was for me, Elizabeth, so I fixed it. No more Sheen.
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There are lots of Americans out there with a cold war mentality who are all about "converting Russia," blind to the Bolshevik Jєωs that run their own country.
Fatima most probably referred to the 1958 Conclave in which the Russians engineered the election of their agent Roncalli to the papacy. Russia also slaughtered millions of Catholics around the world (in the Ukraine for instance). It wasn't about the Cold War. It's you who appear to have fallen victim to the mentality that the errors of Russia must refer to the Cold War.
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I dislike Fulton Sheen too. I'm sorry to say this, but if Catholics weren't so stupid in the fifties maybe we wouldn't be in this mess today. They went haywire after WWII and haven't been the same since.
In the nineties I read a book about him (come to think of it, Myrna, I got it from your library) and was shocked to read how bad he was after VII. He was a real fan of Teilhard de Chardin and went along with everything.
The neo-cons loves him.
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Alexandria, yes, Father Dominic told me, when I was in his parish, very gently that Sheen may not have been what so many think he was. Please don't blame me, in 1950 I was only 10 years old. What I am saying is I was disappointed when Father told me that.
What I also said, was I have his talks and enjoy listening to them because he doesn't say the things on the tapes that he is accused of saying. He is a very good speaker, in my opinion. I hope in the end he saved his soul, but no one can judge if he did or did not. It is possible just the same to hope he realized the error of his ways. I mean my sins have been great too and no one deserves Hell more than I, but through God's grace I realized one day where I was heading.
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If one leads others astray by false teachings, we can hope they avoided hell by some sort of last minute mea culpa. However, purgatory for someone leading others astray would last as long as people are listening to those falsehoods and being lead astray even today.
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I used to attend Mass in NYC at the parish he died in - St. Agnes. I was told that he realized toward the end of his life he had been duped. Of course, by the late seventies, it was evident (for those with eyes to see) that no "new springtime" had occurred.
No, Myrna, I was not blaming you. What I meant was that Catholics from immigrant families had been really assimilated into the American culture by the fifties and were all caught up in the American dream (whatever that was). They had been treated so harshly and had been so marginalized that they were desperate to "fit in" no matter the cost. Fulton Sheen helped them along. It's as if he was saying by being a T.V. personality "See, we Catholic are just like you. You have no reason to fear us taking over your country."
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I used to attend Mass in NYC at the parish he died in - St. Agnes. I was told that he realized toward the end of his life he had been duped. Of course, by the late seventies, it was evident (for those with eyes to see) that no "new springtime" had occurred.
No, Myrna, I was not blaming you. What I meant was that Catholics from immigrant families had been really assimilated into the American culture by the fifties and were all caught up in the American dream (whatever that was). They had been treated so harshly and had been so marginalized that they were desperate to "fit in" no matter the cost. Fulton Sheen helped them along. It's as if he was saying by being a T.V. personality "See, we Catholic are just like you. You have no reason to fear us taking over your country."
:applause:
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Did anyone think he might have been a victim of mind control? I mean, one of the people responsible for bringing Bella Dodd (who was an admitted communist agent) back to the Church was him.
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Well I like to give him the benefit of doubt, either way he is in God's mercyful but just hands, as we all will be someday.
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How did this thread get dug up? Oh well -
Ladislaus said:
Fatima most probably referred to the 1958 Conclave in which the Russians engineered the election of their agent Roncalli to the papacy. Russia also slaughtered millions of Catholics around the world (in the Ukraine for instance). It wasn't about the Cold War. It's you who appear to have fallen victim to the mentality that the errors of Russia must refer to the Cold War.
You know, Ladislaus, you are losing credibility with me. Roncalli was an agent of the RUSSIANS? About as much as George Washington was. Do you have any proof of this or is it more unsubstantiated material?
Anyway, what are the Russians? They were Orthodox Christians, for the most part. What do Russians have to do with Western Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and its plots? It was Bolshevik Jєωs, not Russians, who engineered the fall of their monarchy and the White Guard. Lots of Russians were duped into going along with Jєωιѕн and Freemasonic plots, but so was almost the entire Western world. So why blame the "Russians" like they are the spookiest of spooky bad guys? America handed Catholic Poland over to the Russians, our ALLIES in World War II. America and Russia are both evil empires, in different ways, and I refuse to believe that Mary is on the side of America any more than she is on the side of Russia. She would be on the side of Catholic Austria or Poland or Spain.
Ladislaus said:
"Fatima most probably referred to the 1958 Conclave..."
"It wasn't about the Cold War. It's you who appear to have fallen victim to the mentality that the errors of Russia must refer to the Cold War."
Ladislaus, when has anyone ever said that the "errors of Russia" that would be spread around the world had anything to do with the 1958 Conclave? Almost everyone believes that "Mary" was referring to atheistic communism. And this ties in with the Cold War. The Cold War mentality was that the West were the good guys who had to fend off atheistic communism from the hordes of the East. But the West were not the good guys. That is why, rather than making Mary part of the Hegelian dialectic, I choose not to believe in Fatima.
I grant you, Fatima does not necessarily have anything to do with the Cold War. It was those like Bishop Sheen who drew the tenuous connection between America, the Cold War and Fatima. But that is the horror of Fatima, that it always leaves the door open for more error. It is like a Trojan horse that doesn't die, a Trojan horse with other little Trojan horses inside of it -- like Russian dolls! That is Fatima -- a Russian doll in the shape of a Trojan horse.
P.S. As I now realize, that Sheen video is most likely illegally posted. Maybe it qualifies for fair use.
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Alexandria said:
I was told that he realized toward the end of his life he had been duped.
Another deathbed Eureka moment like Washington or Napoleon or John Wayne, huh? This is starting to become a pattern... I guess no one is really ensnared by the devil, they all turn around at the last moment. I am hopeful, but skeptical.
Did he also realize towards the end of his life that he was wrong to have sung the praises of TEILHARD DE CHARDIN?
Innocenza is dead-on. Bp. Sheen was a ham. I was embarrassed for him when I watched him, his speech and behavior was so overripe. I know we can't judge by appearances, but he was also a dead ringer for Bela Lugosi, the original Dracula, and those vampire connotations are not pleasant, considering he spread his errors into every Catholic home that had a TV. You don't get on Jєωιѕн national TV if you are telling the full Catholic truth.
That doesn't mean Bp. Sheen was a deliberate deceiver. He may have simply been a perfect dupe. So it is possible he later came to his senses. But the Bishop Sheen fallout is all too clear to see -- blind patriotism, ecuмenism, a worldly and self-regarding attitude. There is something just flat-out wrong about a bishop on TV, and I think this is why people today don't even see any contradiction between Mel Gibson's life and his Catholicism. This is something that really frustrates me, how someone can come out and say "I'm Catholic," do the opposite of Catholicism, and then win the total trust of people. Don't people know being a MOVIE STAR, the height of vanity, is the complete opposite of Catholic behavior? I think Bishop Sheen being on TV helped make this kind of thing seem acceptable -- mass-market religion.
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The cult of personality may be at fault here. Both Sheen and Lefebvre suffered from it. Extract any engaging idiosycracies and see what you have left that can guide future Catholics. "Don't send your children to Catholic schools" is a favourite one, as is "Rome hosts a new religion". But we have to ask ourselves whether these are mere slogans used when projecting personal political strategies and massive egos. There were certainly many contradictions to disappoint the eager fan.
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If one leads others astray by false teachings, we can hope they avoided hell by some sort of last minute mea culpa. However, purgatory for someone leading others astray would last as long as people are listening to those falsehoods and being lead astray even today.
I never heard that teaching of the Church, that if someone is in Purgatory their stay is continually extended longer if someone on earth continues to read or heed their writings. Are you sure about this? You might ask your priest, I will ask mine also.
That does not make sense to me, as I thought when we died our time was over, and our will was fixed forever, Heven, Hell or Purgatory.
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In the fall when you see that the frost is going to come, you pick all of your tomatoes. Some will be ripe and ready to eat, some in various stages of green and some totally green and not of full size.
You can use the fully ripe ones right then and put the partially ripe ones in newspaper to finish ripening, but the immature and totally green ones you throw away. Heaven, purgatory and hell.
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Myrna:
...I never heard that teaching of the Church, that if someone is in Purgatory their stay is continually extended longer if someone on earth continues to read or heed their writings.
Nor have I. I would think that it would be a violation of Church teaching that God sees all and knows all. He would already be aware of the final tally of the damage at the time of His judgment. From that point, one is at the mercy of the Communion of Saints to gain some shortening (whatever that would mean in eternity).
I'm also a little uncomfortable with:
Trinity saying:
Some will be ripe and ready to eat, some in various stages of green and some totally green and not of full size.
A judgment that directs a sinner to purgatory would also guarantee a release to heaven. Such a person must already have fulfilled the requirements for Heaven, but still owes some punishment to be served for transgressions. Thus a soul would not be so much imperfect but rather "still owing". I'm not sure anyone can gain in spiritual wisdom in Purgatory, or grow to reach some qualification that was not already achieved. It is just "time served" that has not been reduced by some other amelioration prior to death.
If someone has a further explanation from an approved and orthodox source, I'd be happy to read it.
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Yes, lighthouse, those who do not produce good fruit shall be cut down and cast into the fire. I just used tomatoes instead of trees.
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I heard that once when a priest was talking about persons who star in racy movies. He said that the persons purgatory will be going on as long as persons are still watching that film or being led into sin due to that film. Heck, I do not know, sounded alright at the time, why would the actor be in Heaven when done on earth their work is causing persons to fall. If I understood wrong and mispoke I am sorry.
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In the fall when you see that the frost is going to come, you pick all of your tomatoes. Some will be ripe and ready to eat, some in various stages of green and some totally green and not of full size.
You can use the fully ripe ones right then and put the partially ripe ones in newspaper to finish ripening, but the immature and totally green ones you throw away. Heaven, purgatory and hell.
I always thought you could make fried green tomatoes with those totally green ones. Analogies are always difficult. :smile:
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Not the ones that haven't matured far enough. There is just nothing to be done with them.
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Let's stick with Jesus' analogy then. What if you have only produced two small figs and the rest of you is barren.
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The cult of personality may be at fault here. Both Sheen and Lefebvre suffered from it. Extract any engaging idiosycracies and see what you have left that can guide future Catholics. "Don't send your children to Catholic schools" is a favourite one, as is "Rome hosts a new religion". But we have to ask ourselves whether these are mere slogans used when projecting personal political strategies and massive egos. There were certainly many contradictions to disappoint the eager fan.
People that are engaged in the cultish behaviour of worshiping their idols (be it JPII, Sheen or ABL) are not capable of objective or reasonable thought.
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I heard that once when a priest was talking about persons who star in racy movies. He said that the persons purgatory will be going on as long as persons are still watching that film or being led into sin due to that film. Heck, I do not know, sounded alright at the time, why would the actor be in Heaven when done on earth their work is causing persons to fall. If I understood wrong and mispoke I am sorry.
An SSPX priest once gave a sermon about something like what you are referring to here. He called it the "ripple effect." He was alluding to the fact that whatever good or evil you do has long-term effects, and only when you die will you know the extent of the effects. But he didn't say that this continually affected your stay in purgatory. I think it would have been all taken into account at your particular judgment since everything is present to Our Lord - the "Eternal Present."
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Yes, there's temporal punishment due for all the consequences of our sins even when the guilt has been remitted.
There might in fact be some sense that there's a temporal aspect to Purgatory that's tied into time on earth. It's very hard to say.