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Author Topic: Frs. Altamira & Pierre Roy to be consecrated  (Read 16833 times)

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Re: Frs. Altamira & Pierre Roy to be consecrated
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2024, 10:23:46 PM »
Does everyone understand clearly that trad bishops -- sede, R&R, and SSPX -- are not bishops in the strict sense (holding a juridical office whether as ordinary, suffragan, auxiliary, or curial) but only dispensers of sacraments requiring episcopal ministration?

Correct me if I am wrong, but according to the little research that I've made, a bishop who is not attached to a diocesis (real or "titular") has never occured in the Church's history. It can be said to be a "Traditionalist creation".

Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Re: Frs. Altamira & Pierre Roy to be consecrated
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2024, 10:28:10 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but according to the little research that I've made, a bishop who is not attached to a diocesis (real or "titular") has never occured in the Church's history. It can be said to be a "Traditionalist creation".
Correct! This is why trad bishops are essentially sacrament dispensers and nothing more. It is an odd historical development because they do not even hold or claim to hold titular sees.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Frs. Altamira & Pierre Roy to be consecrated
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2024, 06:42:29 AM »
Correct! This is why trad bishops are essentially sacrament dispensers and nothing more. It is an odd historical development because they do not even hold or claim to hold titular sees.

Even the notion of a "Chor" or "Auxiliary" bishop took a bit to develop in the Church.  They too had no jurisdiction, which is a bit tricky since the very term "episcopos" implies having authority over priests, but were merely consecrated to assist bishops as Sacrament dispensers (for the most part), the difference being that they were at least "attached" to a bishop.  This is actually another argument against the validity of the New Rite of consecration.  Even if you can untangle the linguistic mess that is the form, the reference is to having authority (vs. the Traditional Rite of having the summit of the priesthood), which rules out its use for creating auxliary or chor bishops without jurisdiction, and is consistent with Father Cekada's argument that the closest analogy in the Eastern Rites (as alleged by the defenders of the form) is with a rite for the installation of a Patriarch, not the consecration of a bishop.

Re: Frs. Altamira & Pierre Roy to be consecrated
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2024, 08:48:09 AM »
And it's kind of strange when Traditionalist bishops sing mass from the throne, use the crozier or even the mitre, which are all symbols related to jurisdiction.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Frs. Altamira & Pierre Roy to be consecrated
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2024, 08:51:30 AM »
And it's kind of strange when Traditionalist bishops sing mass from the throne, use the crozier or even the mitre, which are all symbols related to jurisdiction.

I've never understood these practices either.  They should use the faldstool and dispense with the crozier (not sure about the mitre).