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Author Topic: Francisco Palau's Prophecies  (Read 58894 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2025, 06:19:54 PM »
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  • I dug through some notes from a time recently when I discussed this with someone else, and here is a quote from Cardinal Billot:


    Quote
    Let us suppose that the primacy was transferred from the See of Rome and is now joined to another: Naples, Paris, or Cologne. Then for this imaginary future time it will not be true any longer what was defined, and what had to be held until that time by everyone by the Catholic Faith: "The Roman Pontiff himself is the successor (not only was once the successor) of Blessed Peter the Prince of the Apostles, and the head of the whole Church." And as a result it will no longer be an anathema that "he who says the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of Blessed Peter in the primacy." Nor must anyone say anymore, "The Roman Church, by the decision of Our Lord, holds ordinary power over all others (not only used to have that power)." And this is none other than the power of the jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, by which both shepherds and faithful both individually and collectively are bound. We'd also have to change what had been proposed for belief until that time, in the profession of Lyon and Trent: "The holy Roman Church holds the highest and fullest primacy over the entire Catholic Church. I acknowledge the Roman Church as the mother and mistress of all churches, and I promise obedience to the Roman Pontiff the successor of Blessed Peter the Prince of the Apostles and the vicar of Our Lord." In sum, the true Church of Jesus Christ would not be any longer the Roman Catholic Church, but rather the Neapolitan Church, or the Parisian Church. The very absurdity of these consequences, which are intolerable to the ears of Catholics, but which are necessarily contained in the idea of moving the see, demonstrate the unchangeableness of the object that is proposed for belief in the definitions and professions of faith.


    I hope this explains the problem?

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #16 on: October 24, 2025, 06:26:40 PM »
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  • Here is another quote from Cardinal Billot:


    Quote
    This conclusion is contained in tradition, and is not directly defined by the Church, but it can be, and is so closely connected with other defined dogmas that it hardly differs from them. The council of Florence defined: We define that the Roman Pontiff is the successor of Blessed Peter. The Vatican council defined: "If anyone says that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of Blessed Peter in the primacy, let him be anathema." But if it were possible that somehow the pope could be transferred from the Roman bishop and city to another bishop and city, then these definitions, in order to be true, must be understood as follows: "We define that the Roman Pontiff is the success of Blessed Peter, only as long as the type of succession which has been used up until now continues, or until another rule of succession of Peter comes into effect, or until the present situation and conditions are changed." But this kind of limitation, apart from the fact that it is made up without basis, appears necessary to reject completely. First of all, because it would have to be said explicitly and strongly that canons of the faith in their obvious and natural meaning can turn out sometimes to be false.



    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #17 on: October 24, 2025, 06:30:04 PM »
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  • Read this excerpt below from the Pike letter to Mazzini in 1871 for more clues as to how the Roman Pontiff is "transported" elsewhere. Of course, this is the view from the perspective of the Freemasons. But it seems to align with other prophecies.

    “It is also said that the Pope of superstition, sitting in Rome at the time of the fragmentation, will refuse to acquiesce in the new situation of his Church, and that he will hurl his thunderbolts, henceforth powerless, against the governments participating in this great work of social salvation. Then, he will be abandoned by a multitude of his priests in the various countries, since many will have been won over to us in advance; Italy will expel him, and the accursed Papacy will be wandering and obliged to return for a time into darkness [or obscurity]; for the governments will bring severe penalties against those who would maintain their adherence to it and who would thus conspire with it. 

    "But it is also written that the Wandering/Straying/Erring Pope [Pape-errant], shepherd of a scattered flock, pilot of the helpless boat of Cephas, and sixth successor of the man of pride under whom the temporal power of the infamous pontificate has collapsed, will be collected, after expulsions upon expulsions, by the Slavic autocrat, who will affect to render him great honors. Adonaism will then attempt to reconstitute itself as before the expulsion from Rome; the Wandering Pope [Pape-errant] being near death in Russia, the imperial autocrat will prostrate himself at his feet, and the nations practicing until then Orthodoxy, that is to say the schismatic religion of the Orient, will rally fairly quickly to the old Roman Catholicism, vomited from Italy. The Wandering Pope [Pape-errant], on his deathbed, will be joyful to see these new followers replace the Westerners recently separated from his Church, and, within the nations which will have carried out the fragmentation of Adonaïsm, he will still have the faithful, these hiding to indulge in the practices of the reprobate superstition; before expiring, he will have maintained the episcopate to the bishops of the Orient schism, and he will have instituted, among them, Greek and Russian cardinals. His successor will be a Slav; the seat of the Adonaïe Papacy will be established in the northern city of Peter, with the reservation of reconquering Rome. But it will be in vain that the imperial autocrat, in the hope of extending his domination, will make himself the crusader of Adonaïsm; his efforts will not succeed, and the Church, once Roman, will remain fragmented in the nations of Western Europe. Thus, Russia will be the last refuge and the last bulwark of Adonaism claiming to be Catholic.

    ...

    "Therefore, when the autocratic empire of Russia has become the citadel of papist Adonaism, we will unleash the nihilist and atheistic revolutionaries, and we will provoke a formidable social cataclysm, which will clearly show to the nations, and in all its horror, the effect of absolute unbelief, the mother of savagery and the bloodiest disorder. Then, everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the mad minority of the rebels, will exterminate these destroyers of civilization; and the countless disillusioned of Adonaism, whose deistic souls will have remained until this moment without a compass, thirsting for an ideal, but not knowing to which god to award their homage, will receive the True Light, by the universal manifestation of the pure Luciferian doctrine, finally made public, a manifestation which will arise from the general movement of reaction, following the crushing of atheism and Adonaism, both at the same time defeated and exterminated.

    "The birth of the religion of Lucifer the Good God, establishing itself forever without a rival on the terrestrial globe, could not be an instantaneous operation, nor of a year, nor of five years [lustre], nor of a century. The lasting work is that which is created by slow progression. The 19th century saw the conception of true and good catholicism; the 20th century will be the century of gestation, to surely bring the birth to its term fixed in the book of heaven (September 29, 1996 of the Christian era then ended).

    “Written and given in Solemn Vault, and signed, at the feet of the Sacred Palladium, by the Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and by the ten Elders composing the Most Serene Grand College of Emeritus Masons, in the Supreme Orient of Charleston, in the beloved Valley of the Divine Master, on the 29th and last day of the Moon Ab of the year U00871 of the True Light (August 15, 1871, vulgar era). »

    This is the secret plan, which formulates and summarizes the tactics and hopes of the sect.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #18 on: October 24, 2025, 06:34:12 PM »
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  • I dug through some notes from a time recently when I discussed this with someone else, and here is a quote from Cardinal Billot:

    I hope this explains the problem?
    Thanks! I would imagine we could find many more who would say the same, but it does not seem to be "certain" but rather the "more common opinion".

    The AI spit this out:

    In Catholic theology, the idea that the binding of the papacy to the diocese of Rome is a divine, immutable mandate is commonly held, but not a formally defined dogma. The office of the papacy itself is of divine institution, but the association with Rome is a matter of providential history and sacred tradition.
    Here is a breakdown of the theological notes and how they apply to the various aspects of the papacy:

    Theological Note (Level of Certainty)
    Explanation


    The Petrine office itself
    De Fide Divina et Catholica (Divinely and Catholicly revealed).
    The dogma that Christ established the office of the papacy, giving St. Peter and his successors supreme authority, was formally defined at the First Vatican Council. This is a matter of divine faith, and its denial is heresy.

    The Pope's universal jurisdiction
    Sententia certa (Certain proposition).
    That the Pope has supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power is a doctrine taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. While not defined with the same solemnity as the Petrine office itself, it is a certain truth of the faith.

    The Pope's tie to the See of Rome
    Communis (Commonly held).
    The belief that the successor of Peter is always the Bishop of Rome is a consensus position among theologians. This is based on the historical fact that St. Peter was the first bishop of Rome and died there, and the succession has continued in that see ever since. It is a firm truth based on sacred tradition and historical providence, but theologians generally do not classify it as being directly established by divine law.

    The possibility of separation
    Sententia communior (More common opinion)
    This classification relates to the logical possibility of the papacy becoming unbound from the See of Rome. Because the binding is considered a matter of tradition and ecclesiastical law (not an immutable divine decree), theologians consider it theoretically possible, though highly unlikely and providential, that the two could be separated. For instance, during the Avignon Papacy, the Pope remained the bishop of Rome despite not residing there.

    Summary of theological notes
    • Divine Revelation (De Fide Divina et Catholica): The office of the papacy itself, as founded by Christ.
    • Certain Proposition (Sententia certa): The Pope's universal jurisdiction as part of the Church's ordinary teaching.
    • Commonly Held (Communis): The permanent union of the papal office with the See of Rome is the common and most probable opinion among theologians, founded in sacred tradition.


    "Possible but highly unlikely" :laugh1: What would they say now I wonder...

    Some say Cardinal Billot was an amazing theologian, I am not too familiar with him. But I would imagine that he would be asking similar questions if he was in our place now, especially because it is not a "certain" opinion. He is arguing that the definitions as "how-named" doesn't add up. But, there is no specific Divine promise that Rome as a city (or any part thereof shall stand to the very end of the world).

    But aside from the above theological points, it seems Palau was told the "angel of Rome" would move the Holy See - so therefore God would move it (it is His Church after all). But from what I can tell, he did not say to where, or that anyone would even know, just that he would do it, most likely to be restored when the "Great Restorer" was sent.

    Not to be coy, but if the diocese itself is just a physical space and not relative to the amount of people. Maybe the Pontiff could just carry around a jar of earth from Rome in his pocket! What does it really mean to be "Bishop of Rome". Is he Bishop of the dirt? Or is he Bishop of its people? If the latter is true, and the more probable opinion of the theologians in this matter is correct and Rome must in some fashion always exist so these physical names designating the location of the papacy must remain to the end of the world, then maybe we should all pack up and move to Rome because our chances of survival would then increase infallibly!

    Fascinating...


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #19 on: October 24, 2025, 06:53:26 PM »
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  • Read this excerpt below from the Pike letter to Mazzini in 1871 for more clues as to how the Roman Pontiff is "transported" elsewhere. Of course, this is the view from the perspective of the Freemasons. But it seems to align with other prophecies.

    “It is also said that the Pope of superstition, sitting in Rome at the time of the fragmentation, will refuse to acquiesce in the new situation of his Church, and that he will hurl his thunderbolts, henceforth powerless, against the governments participating in this great work of social salvation. Then, he will be abandoned by a multitude of his priests in the various countries, since many will have been won over to us in advance; Italy will expel him, and the accursed Papacy will be wandering and obliged to return for a time into darkness [or obscurity]; for the governments will bring severe penalties against those who would maintain their adherence to it and who would thus conspire with it.

    "But it is also written that the Wandering/Straying/Erring Pope [Pape-errant], shepherd of a scattered flock, pilot of the helpless boat of Cephas, and sixth successor of the man of pride under whom the temporal power of the infamous pontificate has collapsed, will be collected, after expulsions upon expulsions, by the Slavic autocrat, who will affect to render him great honors. Adonaism will then attempt to reconstitute itself as before the expulsion from Rome; the Wandering Pope [Pape-errant] being near death in Russia, the imperial autocrat will prostrate himself at his feet, and the nations practicing until then Orthodoxy, that is to say the schismatic religion of the Orient, will rally fairly quickly to the old Roman Catholicism, vomited from Italy. The Wandering Pope [Pape-errant], on his deathbed, will be joyful to see these new followers replace the Westerners recently separated from his Church, and, within the nations which will have carried out the fragmentation of Adonaïsm, he will still have the faithful, these hiding to indulge in the practices of the reprobate superstition; before expiring, he will have maintained the episcopate to the bishops of the Orient schism, and he will have instituted, among them, Greek and Russian cardinals. His successor will be a Slav; the seat of the Adonaïe Papacy will be established in the northern city of Peter, with the reservation of reconquering Rome. But it will be in vain that the imperial autocrat, in the hope of extending his domination, will make himself the crusader of Adonaïsm; his efforts will not succeed, and the Church, once Roman, will remain fragmented in the nations of Western Europe. Thus, Russia will be the last refuge and the last bulwark of Adonaism claiming to be Catholic.

    ...

    "Therefore, when the autocratic empire of Russia has become the citadel of papist Adonaism, we will unleash the nihilist and atheistic revolutionaries, and we will provoke a formidable social cataclysm, which will clearly show to the nations, and in all its horror, the effect of absolute unbelief, the mother of savagery and the bloodiest disorder. Then, everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the mad minority of the rebels, will exterminate these destroyers of civilization; and the countless disillusioned of Adonaism, whose deistic souls will have remained until this moment without a compass, thirsting for an ideal, but not knowing to which god to award their homage, will receive the True Light, by the universal manifestation of the pure Luciferian doctrine, finally made public, a manifestation which will arise from the general movement of reaction, following the crushing of atheism and Adonaism, both at the same time defeated and exterminated.

    "The birth of the religion of Lucifer the Good God, establishing itself forever without a rival on the terrestrial globe, could not be an instantaneous operation, nor of a year, nor of five years [lustre], nor of a century. The lasting work is that which is created by slow progression. The 19th century saw the conception of true and good catholicism; the 20th century will be the century of gestation, to surely bring the birth to its term fixed in the book of heaven (September 29, 1996 of the Christian era then ended).

    “Written and given in Solemn Vault, and signed, at the feet of the Sacred Palladium, by the Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and by the ten Elders composing the Most Serene Grand College of Emeritus Masons, in the Supreme Orient of Charleston, in the beloved Valley of the Divine Master, on the 29th and last day of the Moon Ab of the year U00871 of the True Light (August 15, 1871, vulgar era). »

    This is the secret plan, which formulates and summarizes the tactics and hopes of the sect.
    It seems the only way they could have known this was through the medium of devils. This evil prophecy fits somewhat with what Palau was shown about God granting them this "victory". God allows it ultimately for His greater glory. 


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #20 on: October 24, 2025, 07:25:26 PM »
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  • It seems the only way they could have known this was through the medium of devils. This evil prophecy fits somewhat with what Palau was shown about God granting them this "victory". God allows it ultimately for His greater glory.


    Don Bosco. Same basic theme:


    FIRST PROPHECY (English SDB official translation)


    This was communicated on February 12, 1870 to the Holy Father.

    God alone is almighty, all-knowing, all-seeing. God has neither past nor future; everything is present to Him, everything at a single point of time. Nothing eludes God. No person, no place is distant from Him. In His infinite mercy and for His glory He alone can unveil the future to man.

    On the vigil of the Epiphany of this year, 1870, all material things in my room disappeared, and I found myself contemplating supernatural matters. It was only a matter of an instant, but I saw a great deal. Although what I witnessed was sensibly present, I find it extremely difficult to communicate it to others intelligibly, as one may realize by what follows. This is the Word of God in human parlance:

    "War will come from the south, peace from the north.

    "The laws of France no longer recognize the Creator. The Creator will reveal Himself by visiting her three times with the scourge of His wrath. The first time He will destroy her pride by defeat, pillage, and destruction of crops, cattle, and men. On His second visit, the great whore of Babylon [False Rome], which the faithful grievingly call Europe's brothel, shall lose her leader and fall prey to chaos.

    "Paris! Paris! Instead of fortifying yourself with the Lord's name, you surround yourself with houses of ill repute. You yourself shall destroy them; your idol, the Pantheon, will be razed to the ground, so that it may truthfully be said that 'iniquity has lied to itself.' Your enemies will plunge you into anguish, famine, terror, and the contempt of nations. But woe unto you if you do not recognize the hand which smites you! I want to punish your immorality, your desertion, your contempt for My law, says the Lord.

    "On My third visit, you shall fall under the foreign yoke. From afar your enemies will see your palaces in flames, your home in ruins, soaked in the blood of your heroes who are no more.

    "But behold, a great warrior from the north appears, a banner in his right hand, his arm bearing this inscription: 'Irresistible is the hand of the Lord.' At that moment the Venerable Old Man of Rome went forward to meet him, wielding a flaming torch. The banner then grew larger and its blackness became white as snow; in its center stood out the name of the Almighty in golden letters.

    "The warrior and his followers bowed profoundly to the Venerable Old Man and joined hands with him.

    "Now the voice of Heaven is addressed to the Shepherd of Shepherds. You are in solemn conference with your co-workers, but the enemy of good never stands idle. He cunningly plots and sets all his wiles against you. He will sow discord among your helpers and will rear enemies among My sons. The powers of the world shall vomit fire. They would love to smother My words in the throats of the guardians of My law, but they shall not succeed. They shall do much harm, but only to themselves. Hurry! If knots cannot be untied, sever them. Do not halt in the face of difficulties, but go forth until the hydra of error has been beheaded. At this blow earth and hell shall tremble, but the world will be saved and the faithful shall exult. Gather around you only two co-workers, yet wherever you go, carry on the task entrusted to you and bring it to completion. Days go by swiftly and your years are reaching their appointed number, but the great Queen shall always assist you, and, as in the past, She shall always be magnum et singulare in Ecclesia praesidium.

    "But you, O Italy, land of blessings, who has plunged you into desolation? Not your enemies, but your own friends. Do you not hear your children begging for the bread of faith, unable to find one to break it for them? What shall I do? I shall strike the shepherds and scatter the sheep so that those who sit upon the chair of Moses may seek better pastures and their flock may gently listen and be fed.

    "But My hand shall be heavy upon both flock and shepherds. Famine, plague, and war shall cause mothers to mourn the blood of their sons and husbands shed on foreign soil.

    "What shall befall you, ungrateful, effeminate, proud Rome? You have reached a point when you seek and admire nought in your sovereign but luxury, forgetting that both your glory and his lies on Golgotha. Now he is old, frail, defenseless, and dispossessed. Nevertheless, though captive, his words cause the whole world to tremble.

    "O Rome! Four times shall I come to you! The first time I shall smite your regions and its people. The second time I shall bring slaughter and destruction to your very gates. Should not that make you open your eyes? A third time shall I come, and I will demolish your defenses and defenders. At My Father's command, terror, dismay, and desolation will reign.

    "My wise followers flee, but My law is still trod underfoot. Therefore, I shall come a fourth time. Woe to you if My law again shall go unheeded. There shall be defections among both learned and ignorant. Your blood and that of your children shall wipe out your transgressions.

    "War, plague, and famine are the scourges to smite human pride and malice. Where are your magnificent villas and palaces, you people of wealth? They have become the litter of squares and streets!

    "And you priests, why are you not prostrate between the vestibule and the altar, weeping and praying that the scourge may cease. Why do you not take up the shield of faith and preach My Word from the rooftops, in the houses, streets, and squares, and even in inaccessible places? Do you not know that this is the terrible two-edged sword which smites My enemies and placates the wrath of God and man?

    "These things shall inexorably come to pass, all in succession.

    "Things follow too slowly upon each other, but the great Queen of Heaven is at hand; the Lord's power is Hers. Like mist, She shall scatter Her enemies. She shall vest the Venerable Old Man with all his former garments.

    "There shall yet come a violent hurricane. Iniquity is at an end, sin shall cease, and before two full moons shall have shone in the month of flowers, the rainbow of peace shall appear on the earth.

    "The great Minister shall see the Bride of his King clothed in glory.

    "Throughout the world a sun so bright shall shine as was never seen since the flames of the Cenacle until today, nor shall it be seen again until the end of time."



    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #21 on: October 24, 2025, 07:28:22 PM »
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  • Here is another quote from Cardinal Billot:
    So maybe this is a bad example and the AI is only as good as its handlers (including so called "Catholic AI"), so if you want to challenge/check it I am open to being corrected in my understanding on it, but lets look at the difference between "certain", and "common opinion" with an example:

    Theologically Certain Example:


    QUESTION: Is a Catholic allowed to doubt the canonization of saints?

    ANSWER: "While there is debate among theologians, the mainstream Catholic position is that a Catholic is not permitted to doubt the canonization of a saint. The formal decree of canonization is widely considered an infallible and irrevocable act by the pope, meaning the Church guarantees that the person is in heaven.

    The theological position on doubting canonization

    • A guarantee of eternal salvation. The Church does not "make" someone a saint. Instead, canonization is an official declaration that a person is certainly in heaven and enjoys the beatific vision. To deny this would imply that the Church can lead the faithful into error, which contradicts the doctrine of papal infallibility when defining matters of faith and morals for the universal Church.
    • Theological certainty, not dogma. The infallibility of canonization is considered a matter of theological certainty, not a divinely revealed dogma of faith. This distinction means that while denying it is a grave error and contrary to the universal consensus of theologians, it is not formally heretical.
    • Respectful discussion is permitted. While a Catholic is not free to deny the sanctity or heavenly status of a canonized saint, it is permissible to respectfully discuss concerns about the canonization process itself, such as its speed or thoroughness. This is not the same as denying the infallibility of the final judgment"

    So it is an objective mortal sin against the faith to denying the certain opinion of the theologians regarding canonizations.

    VS.

    Common Opinion of the Theologians Example:

    QUESTION: Is a Catholic allowed to believe that some day the Papacy may not be in Rome but be moved?

    ANSWER: "For a Catholic, the papacy is not geographically bound to the city of Rome, and it is permissible to believe that it could be moved in the future. The Pope's power and authority are tied to his role as the Bishop of Rome, the successor of Saint Peter, not to the physical structures of Vatican City.

    The historical precedence and theological reasoning that support this view include:


    • The Avignon Papacy: The most direct historical example is the Avignon Papacy from 1309 to 1377, when seven popes resided in Avignon, France. Although controversial, these were considered valid popes, demonstrating that the Pope does not need to live in Rome to exercise his ministry.
    • Apostolic Succession: The authority of the papacy is derived from the Bishop of Rome's role as the successor to Saint Peter. While Peter died and was buried in Rome, his successor's ability to lead the Church is not dependent on being physically present in the city.
    • Emergency relocation: Popes have made contingency plans for relocating the papacy in dire circuмstances, such as during wartime. This demonstrates the Church's understanding that the institution can physically move if necessary."

    So, at least according to AI (for what it is worth) there is no sin in believing it could happen that the papacy could be moved.

    My simple point, there is a huge leap from "common opinion" to "certain". Denying theologically certain opinions involves temerity (mortal sin), while questioning the other (more common) is permissible but should not be done rashly and for no good reason.  You will surely find many more theologians that agree with Billot, but that still doesn't make it "certain" like canonizations are.


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #22 on: October 24, 2025, 07:39:35 PM »
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  • the great whore of Babylon [False Rome], which the faithful grievingly call Europe's brothel, shall lose her leader and fall prey to chaos.
    That about sums it up! So many pieces but they all point to the same fate of Rome, hopefully more will come to see.

    Sanctus Ioannes Bosco - Ora pro nobis!


    Online SimpleMan

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #23 on: October 25, 2025, 08:12:40 AM »
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  • Well, the Papacy had been in exile at Avignon for quite some time, and not a few prophecies refer to the Pope having to flee Rome ... 

    I concede, you do make a good point here, the Palau prophecies could be seen as more resembling the Avignon captivity, or more resembling Palmar de Troya.

    Online SimpleMan

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #24 on: October 25, 2025, 08:22:42 AM »
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  • It really has nothing to do with where the pope happens to reside. It has to do with which diocese he is the bishop of.
    While a bishop is really supposed to live in, and have his cathedra in, the city of whose see he is the bishop, it is not absolutely essential to the office.  Many bishops are titular bishops of defunct sees, but I know of no cases where they actually live in the city where that see was located (and some of those cities no doubt have ceased to exist).

    Likening existing sees to titular sees might be comparing apples to oranges (or possibly Granny Smith to Golden Delicious), but I suppose the point here is whether the order of bishop is intrinsically tied to being Bishop of Someplace, whether that "someplace" actually exists or not.  Case in point, do the SSPX bishops have titular sees?

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #25 on: October 25, 2025, 08:42:51 AM »
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  • I just find Palau to be another credible individual, and if there's some mistake, could be a translation error, some interpolation into his text -- or he could himself have been mistaken, where perhaps he saw a fleeing of Rome by the Pope as some quasi-permanent thing.  There are many prophecies that speak of it.

    If found the narrative in the video annoying and hard to follow, as there was a second voice often talking over the main one.  Are their English translations of the texts he narrated, since they really are fascinating, where he basically confirms that the Conciliar Church is the Whore of Babylon from Revelation, making some interesting correlations between the temporal power (Kings / Heads of the Beat) and the cooperating Whore of Babylon, how basially the Kings went down first to serve Satan, and then infiltrated the Church to gain the cooperation of the Whore (pretending to the the Church).


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #26 on: October 25, 2025, 03:16:13 PM »
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  • Skid Row, I think you are trying to change the question here. You initially asked, "Can a pope move the see of the papacy to a different location from Rome?" I answered with Cardinal Billot's quotes about this question, and that he said there are dogmatic definitions that require us to accept, with the unchangeable assent of Faith, that submission to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. The Roman Pontiff should be distinguished from the New York Pontiff or the Walla Walla Pontiff or the Pontiff of anywhere else in the world. The Roman Pontiff is the pontiff of Rome, not any other diocese.

    Now you seem to be asking what the theological level of certitude for that is, without having addressed any of Cardinal Billot's arguments, or addressed why it would be possible to reject the Council of Lyons or the Council of Florence.

    I also tried to explain that the pope living somewhere outside his see of Rome, especially due to some serious persecution or disaster, is different from a pope saying he is moving the head see of the Church from Rome to some other diocese. The former is not only possible, but has indeed happened. It is the latter case that we are discussing here, which has never happened, which would contradict defined dogma, and which Cardinal Billot teaches cannot happen.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #27 on: October 25, 2025, 04:16:35 PM »
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  • Now you seem to be asking what the theological level of certitude for that is, without having addressed any of Cardinal Billot's arguments, or addressed why it would be possible to reject the Council of Lyons or the Council of Florence.
    I got you. 

    That is just my instinct. I believe that all the true theologians - in the proper sense, i.e., fully Catholic, doctorates from still Catholic universities, titles conferred, etc. do not exist at this time. So I will first look to the level of an opinion and THEN study more the depth of each of the different opinions that are permissible (if my questions requires it). I am perfectly content with not being able to answer how something seems to contradict the common opinion and being unable to give answer to objections raised. But I am instinctively against discussing theological opinions that are certain as if they were even open to discussion. 

    So, I have no answer for Cdl. Billot nor those who in the majority hold his opinion. I think his objections are reasonable, and I am not his equal so my attempt to answer him would be sloppy at best and disrespectful at worst.

    One may hold other opinions that are permitted if the opinion is at the level of "more common" because it implies that others that are less common have and can be discussed respectfully without attacking or defending against the objections raised by either. That is for the actual theologians to hash out if/when the papacy gets restored and if the pope should so desire. Think of the various theological opinions on grace had between the Molinists/Thomists, etc. and how that just stalled and the pope told them to just tolerate each other without losing it and he defined nothing either way.

    That is my reasoning anyway.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #28 on: October 25, 2025, 04:46:56 PM »
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  • I also tried to explain that the pope living somewhere outside his see of Rome, especially due to some serious persecution or disaster, is different from a pope saying he is moving the head see of the Church from Rome to some other diocese. The former is not only possible, but has indeed happened. It is the latter case that we are discussing here, which has never happened, which would contradict defined dogma, and which Cardinal Billot teaches cannot happen.
    I agree. They are totally different. This isn't meant to be some "theologically tight" expose of the questions, just general fishing. The "thrust" of my inquiry revolves around the latter (the See being moved). I started this thread, partly for that reason, because of the THAT part of the prophecy, I appreciate the Convo/info as it is good to work through it with others who actually seem to care. 

    I will offer this though; Are we not all (are at least claim to be) ROMAN Catholics? Do not all Roman Catholics know what is meant when we hear "Roman Pontiff" in the dogmatic definitions? SM mentioned above that many titular sees based around cities now may not longer exist (for ex: I am thinking of the See of Utrecht). So, The Roman Pontiff will always be the leader of the Roman Catholic Church, not because it is Roman, but because Peter chose to make it his last and therefore permanent See. To me this seems easy to understand. It is the faith of Peter who ruled and died in Rome and submission to his legitimate successors that makes all those in communion with them - Roman Catholics -regardless of if the See was moved by God or not. And that is the key distinction here, in Palua's visions it is God's messenger (the Angel of Rome) that moves the See. So, if true, not much anyone can do about that right? I look at what happened at Vatican II (the actual docuмents) as the clear sign that God left those men because they had first abandoned Him. This "fits" with what Palua said about how "Religious freedom is the paganism of the new Caesars." 

    Then it is another matter altogether to claim that Rome as a city can never be destroyed because the phrase "Roman Pontiff" appears many times in dogmatic definitions. That of course was never the intention of the definitions (to say "Rome shall never be destroyed") but rather it's meaning is clear, "Peter and his lawful successors". Just my 2 cents.

    So, say if the Palau's vision about the See being moved is true and either it already has happened or is yet to be, it seems to be out of the hands of any of us and that includes Cdl. Billot and all those who held his opinion (and still do). Where, when, and how this would happen are questions that I do not think Fr. Palau was told, but he was told it would be in the near future and he died in the 1870s I believe. We know God can delay and even avert/abandon His plans (so to speak) due to the free will actions of humanity (Nineveh). But we also know that this just as often does not happen do to the intransigence of man.

    I am proceeding by generally testing the veracity of Palau against the doctrines/opinions of the theologians to see if some of his more "problematic" statements hold up to scrutiny and you have definitely aided me in this, so thank you for the interaction and quotes. 

    Pax

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Francisco Palau's Prophecies
    « Reply #29 on: October 25, 2025, 05:16:07 PM »
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