I get that we have no control over the "official" judgment and removal of a pope. However, clearly some of the things Vinikias has posted (backed by Church teaching) points to the fact that a heretical pope's actions automatically and ipso facto removes him from the Church and the title of Pope (even if it doesn't appear to be so to the rest of the world including us).
I don't see this so much as our judgment but God's judgment as revealed to us by Church teachings.
Ok, FWIW, I will post a few Papal quotes quotes from Pope Paul IV, in 1559.
Most sedevacantists that I know are very familiar with
cuм ex Apostolatus Officio. The ones I've debated with in the past seem to use it as bible, it seems to be their main constitution to justify their belief that the Chair is vacant due to the pope's heresies.
I tried to point out to a similar poster, Cathedra, before he got banned, that cuм ex Apostolatus Officio instructs us what we are to do, what our course of action is to be when we have a pope(s) who is a heretic and / or presumably excommunicated.
cuм ex Apostolatus Officio:
In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman Pontiff,who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the fulness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith.[/b]
The above quote demonstrates:
1) That popes can indeed deviate from (lose) the faith.
2) When popes lose the faith, we are instructed to contradict (resist) them in their errors.
We see that Pope Paul IV told us we are to contradict heretical popes, then in #7, he teaches us that we are also permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and to avoid them - nevertheless, remaining bound by the duty of fidelity and obedience to any future Roman Pontiff.
".....permitted at any time to withdraw with impunity from obedience and devotion to those thus promoted or elevated and to avoid them as warlocks, heathens, publicans, and heresiarchs (the same subject persons, nevertheless, remaining bound by the duty of fidelity and obedience to any future Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates, Cardinals and Roman Pontiff canonically entering).
In the two snips above, the pope instructs us to:
1) Contradict heretical popes
2) Withdraw our obedience (to heresies) from heretical popes
3) Avoid heretical popes
4) Remain faithful and obedient any future [valid] popes
Regardless of the fact that in #6, cuм Ex explicitly teaches that heretical popes automatically lose their office, in #7 we are still explicitly instructed that we are to withdraw obedience to the heresies, avoid yet remain faithful and obedient to any future valid popes.
Pope Paul IV in no way gives anyone, let alone priests or lay people, the right, let alone the duty or responsibility, to declare or believe that the Chair is vacant even after explicitly stating that heretical popes lose their office. It is not within our rights to do such a thing, and per the Bull, those who do such a thing not only err, they are being disobedient to what the Church, through this Bull, teaches. If such a thing were within our rights or if it was our duty or responsibility, the pope certainly would have explicitly said so.
Additionally, what Pope Paul IV states in regards to the pope losing his office, he explicitly says also applies to Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Primates and Cardinals.
The issue gains fuel because whenever people read these types of Magisterial docuмents, it appears that they zoom right into #6 without reading or comprehending anything else it says. They do not read what is written - which is why I constantly am telling Vini to read what is written and not to read into it something it does not say.
Topic: Francis: You dont have to believe in God to go to Heaven (Read 9139 times)