Author Topic: Francis vs the Church (Read 1108 times)

Last Tradhican · « **on:** October 31, 2016, 12:22:57 PM »

Let's analyze these infallible quotes:

"The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and teaches, that none of those who are not within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but Jєωs, heretics and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but are to go into the eternal fire 'prepared for the devil, and his angels' (Mt. 25: 41)., unless before the close of their lives they shall have entered into that Church; also that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is such that the Church's sacraments avail only those abiding in that Church, and that fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of piety which play their part in the Christian combat are in her alone productive of eternal rewards; moreover, that no one, no matter what alms he may have given, not even if he were to shed his blood for Christ's sake, can be saved unless he abide in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Mansi, Concilia, xxxi, 1739; Pope Eugene IV, in the bull, Cantate Domino, 144 1. Denz. 13 5 1.)

Pope Francis:
"Non-Christians, by God’s gracious initiative, when they are faithful to their own consciences, can live “justified by the grace of God”,[199] and thus be “associated to the paschal mystery of Jesus Christ”.[200] But due to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace, God’s working in them tends to produce signs and rites, sacred expressions which in turn bring others to a communitarian experience of journeying towards God.[201] While these lack the meaning and efficacy of the sacraments instituted by Christ, they can be channels which the Holy Spirit raises up in order to liberate non-Christians from atheistic immanentism or from purely individual religious experiences. The same Spirit everywhere brings forth various forms of practical wisdom which help people to bear suffering and to live in greater peace and harmony. As Christians, we can also benefit from these treasures built up over many centuries, which can help us better to live our own beliefs." (Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium, no. 254)

Marlelar · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2016, 12:34:02 PM »

Apparently Francis has a direct line to God who no doubt corrected the error we have been living under for the past 2000 years and directed Francis to set us all straight. :shocked:

What will be next?

Stubborn · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2016, 12:50:05 PM »

Easy enough to analyze.

Pope Eugene IV makes the typically clear and wholly Catholic decree, Francis' babble is necessarily as confused and heretical as every other post V2 docuмent.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2016, 12:51:37 PM »

Also infallible:

"ECCLESIA DEI" JOHN PAUL II, 2 July 1988

4. The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth".(

b) Moreover, I should like to remind theologians and other experts in the ecclesiastical sciences that they should feel themselves called upon to answer in the present circuмstances. Indeed, the extent and depth of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council call for a renewed commitment to deeper study in order to reveal clearly the Council's continuity with Tradition, especially in points of doctrine which, perhaps because they are new, have not yet been well understood by some sections of the Church.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2016, 01:32:05 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Let's analyze these infallible quotes:

Pope Francis:
"Non-Christians, by God’s gracious initiative, when they are faithful to their own consciences, can live “justified by the grace of God”,[199] and thus be “associated to the paschal mystery of Jesus Christ”.[200] But due to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace, God’s working in them tends to produce signs and rites, sacred expressions which in turn bring others to a communitarian experience of journeying towards God.[201] While these lack the meaning and efficacy of the sacraments instituted by Christ, they can be channels which the Holy Spirit raises up in order to liberate non-Christians from atheistic immanentism or from purely individual religious experiences. The same Spirit everywhere brings forth various forms of practical wisdom which help people to bear suffering and to live in greater peace and harmony. As Christians, we can also benefit from these treasures built up over many centuries, which can help us better to live our own beliefs." (Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium, no. 254)

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX
15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.

Stubborn · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2016, 02:40:31 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Also infallible:

"ECCLESIA DEI" JOHN PAUL II, 2 July 1988

4. The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth".(

b) Moreover, I should like to remind theologians and other experts in the ecclesiastical sciences that they should feel themselves called upon to answer in the present circuмstances. Indeed, the extent and depth of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council call for a renewed commitment to deeper study in order to reveal clearly the Council's continuity with Tradition, especially in points of doctrine which, perhaps because they are new, have not yet been well understood by some sections of the Church.

This babble is mind bending by design.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2016, 09:07:22 AM »

The Catholic Answers people will say that there are no conflicts here, no heresies, that this must be interpreted in light of tradition. They make a living "interpreting in light of tradition," everything that comes from the pope. They don't read anything as it is written because they would lose their living if they said the obvious, it is heretical. They have been bought out.

Now, we have this thread, and I want to know how it is that a pope can infallible declare the opposite of what was infallible taught before? Either Francis is a heretic or encyclicals are not infallible, or Catholic Answers is right. A heretic is not even a Catholic, let alone can he lead the Catholic Church. So what is the answer?

Cantarella · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2016, 02:06:04 PM »

There are no words for this abomination.

Alexandria · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2016, 05:40:53 PM »

That reminds me. I read that Francis came up with his own beatitudes yesterday. :rolleyes:

Guess Our Lord's Beatitudes weren't good enough for Francis.