Author Topic: Francis utters another heresy (Read 2880 times)

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 29, 2016, 10:54:39 AM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: ihsv
Quote from: Who am I to Judge
"If – for example – tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here ... Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them ... And one says, 'But I want to be baptized!' What would happen?"
Why wouldn't someone who can say "But I want to be baptized!" not be a human (i.e., a descendant of Adam)?

I am absolutely surprised that you said this. If you have a talking parrot that
keeps on saying I want to be baptized over and over again. Would you
baptized the parrot even though he is a dumb animal?
Please think again and go back to your theological books. I hope they are
dated before 1964.

Geremia · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2016, 11:23:34 AM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

Quote from: Geremia
Quote from: ihsv
Quote from: Who am I to Judge
"If – for example – tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here ... Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them ... And one says, 'But I want to be baptized!' What would happen?"
Why wouldn't someone who can say "But I want to be baptized!" not be a human (i.e., a descendant of Adam)?

I am absolutely surprised that you said this. If you have a talking parrot that
keeps on saying I want to be baptized over and over again. Would you
baptized the parrot even though he is a dumb animal?
Please think again and go back to your theological books. I hope they are
dated before 1964.

From the Roman Ritual (1964; 1962 ed. is almost exactly the same, and I'm sure earlier editions mention this, too):

Quote

A monster or abnormal fetus should in every case be baptized at least with the following expressed condition: If you are a human being, I baptize you, etc. When in doubt as to whether there is one or several persons in the deformed mass, one part is to be baptized absolutely, and the others each with the condition: If you are not baptized, I baptize you, etc.

Thus, if you have doubts whether the creature is human, you should use the aforementioned form of conditional baptism.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #17 on:** September 29, 2016, 12:03:12 PM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: MyrnaM
If they were a descendant of Adam, did God go on Mars also and be crucified to redeem them?
His one and only crucifixion on earth is more than sufficient to redeem all the descendants of Adam, even those who may not live on earth.

I wonder, before the conquistadors' missionary work, if people made your same arguments regarding the "savages" in the "New World." I'm sure they asked: Are they descendants of Adam? Are they intelligent? Do they need baptism? Etc.

Acts Of Apostles 17:26
And hath made of one, all mankind, to dwell upon the whole face of the earth, determining appointed times, and the limits of their habitation.

The Church teaches that everyone, human that is, will have an opportunity of grace, including "savages" which might explain why also in Acts is says:17;23 "For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you"

Francis a formal heretic, face it!

Charlemagne · « **Reply #18 on:** September 29, 2016, 12:34:18 PM »

Pope, anti-pope, heretic, whatever...Bergoglio is a flat-out weirdo.

Geremia · « **Reply #19 on:** September 29, 2016, 01:18:36 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Francis a formal heretic, face it!

I don't doubt he's spewed at least material heresies, but are many better examples of that than his "off-the-cuff" ET comments.

Geremia · « **Reply #20 on:** September 29, 2016, 01:27:51 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Acts Of Apostles 17:26
And hath made of one, all mankind, to dwell upon the whole face of the earth, determining appointed times, and the limits of their habitation.

Does that exclude the dozen astronauts while they were walking on the moon?

Quote from: MyrnaM

The Church teaches that everyone, human that is, will have an opportunity of grace, including "savages"

Yes, but seem to a priori think that extraterrestrials cannot be descendants of Adam.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 29, 2016, 07:42:55 PM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: MyrnaM
Acts Of Apostles 17:26
And hath made of one, all mankind, to dwell upon the whole face of the earth, determining appointed times, and the limits of their habitation.
Does that exclude the dozen astronauts while they were walking on the moon?
Quote from: MyrnaM
The Church teaches that everyone, human that is, will have an opportunity of grace, including "savages"
Yes, but seem to a priori think that extraterrestrials cannot be descendants of Adam.

Geremia, You are just an intellectual version of Poche.

Incredulous · « **Reply #22 on:** September 29, 2016, 08:04:20 PM »

Quote from: Charlemagne

Pope, anti-pope, heretic, whatever...Bergoglio is a flat-out weirdo.

Hmmm... :scratchchin:

Actually, Bergolio could be categorized under the old-school, Jєωιѕн burlesque-style of comedians.

Otherwise known as the "Rodney Dangerfield class" of modernist popes.

Charlemagne · « **Reply #23 on:** September 29, 2016, 09:44:37 PM »

He'll certainly get no respect from me, Incredulous!

Cantarella · « **Reply #24 on:** September 29, 2016, 10:39:14 PM »

Quote

Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?'
Pontiff made the out-of-this-world pledge during homily on acceptance

Does not he know that the Incarnation of Our Lord Jesus Christ in flesh and blood is the central event of ALL creation?

The entire universe was created exclusively for Jesus Christ. God created all things for Christ. Man himself is created for Christ.

Belief in aliens compromises many dogmas of the Faith. It undermines and mocks God's wisdom in creating man to "His own image and likeness". It also denies the sacred book of Genesis, and makes the human damnation of original sin just "a local problem", instead of one that is universal, (as well as the redemption of humankind through Jesus Christ). Not to mention what the existence of aliens would imply to the doctrines of the Last Judgement and the resurrection of the dead and re-creation of the world and its order. This is utterly heretical.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #25 on:** September 30, 2016, 12:32:54 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote
Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?'
Pontiff made the out-of-this-world pledge during homily on acceptance

Does not he know that the Incarnation of Our Lord Jesus Christ in flesh and blood is the central event of ALL creation?

The entire universe was created exclusively for Jesus Christ. God created all things for Christ. Man himself is created for Christ.

Belief in aliens compromises many dogmas of the Faith. It undermines and mocks God's wisdom in creating man to "His own image and likeness". It also denies the sacred book of Genesis, and makes the human damnation of original sin just "a local problem", instead of one that is universal, (as well as the redemption of humankind through Jesus Christ). Not to mention what the existence of aliens would imply to the doctrines of the Last Judgement and the resurrection of the dead and re-creation of the world and its order. This is utterly heretical.

Francis seems to place worldwide acceptance above preservation of the Faith.

For him, the chance of appearing to offend anyone is far more important than safeguarding what has been handed down to us from the Apostles. Just imagine if popes of the first 2 millennia had this Francis outlook, what would there be left of our patrimony today, and what would the martyrs have died for?

The martyrs died to defend the Faith they had received, defending it against the manifest and manifold offenses of pagans, heretics and disbelievers. Put Francis back in those days and which side would he have been on?

Geremia · « **Reply #26 on:** September 30, 2016, 10:47:42 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Belief in aliens compromises many dogmas of the Faith. It undermines and mocks God's wisdom in creating man to "His own image and likeness".

It's a dogma of the faith that God can only make humans in His image and likeness? It seems you're limiting God's omnipotence.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #27 on:** September 30, 2016, 05:37:26 PM »

Okay Geremia, we get it, you have your heart set on those little green men with big slanted eyes from Mars or wherever. No one is going to pop your bubble, have fun with your imagination.

klasG4e · « **Reply #28 on:** September 30, 2016, 08:02:52 PM »

MyrnaM

Quote

Okay Geremia, we get it, you have your heart set on those little green men with big slanted eyes from Mars or wherever. No one is going to pop your bubble, have fun with your imagination.

Another fantasy is multiverse which some of the diehard astrophysicists and others are promoting and have been for some time now. With the faulty premise of multiverse they can then go on to speculate and even postulate all kinds of things. Their main reason -- sorry, it this sounds too conspiratorial -- however in pushing this is to counter or distract from the mounting scientific evidence which is knocking the Copernican Principle off its rails. If there exists multiverse then they would say it's no big deal if we ourselves live in a geocentric universe because with mulitverse it was bound to happen that eventually there would pop into existence our geocentric universe. Capisce?

If you don't quite understand that's understandable. Sensible people are still scratching their heads over the twilight zone of relativity Einstein gave us in order to counter the huge scientific evidence that showed us that the Earth stood still and that the universe revolved around it once every 24 hours. That was just over the top for the atheistic mindset of the leading "lights" such as Uncle Albert. No way Jose. If the Earth stood still at the center of the universe that would have meant Someone with a capital S put it there. In turn that would have meant Galileo was wrong and that the Church was right and that the traditional Catholic interpretation of Sacred Scripture was right and that subsequently that whole big frog to prince fairy tale was pure hogwash.

The devil hates to be mocked by being shown up and so do a lot of these diehard atheistic establishment -- read grants, money, prestige, positions, etc -- type scientists who do Old Scratch's bidding for him. Ain't no way they are about to accept a geocentric universe, although they may try to humor the geocentrists by saying that even if we did live in a geocentric universe its importance would be totally discounted by the fact that there exists multiverse!

poche · « **Reply #29 on:** October 05, 2016, 12:17:18 AM »

Whether or not God created another world out there is pure speculation. The issue as to if they could be out there with descendants of Adam is a possibility that is pure speculation. If they exist then they would need baptism in order to be saved.