Author Topic: Francis strikes again  (Read 1286 times)

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Offline Merry

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If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

Offline poche

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Re: Francis strikes again
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 04:40:15 AM »
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  • That only gives bishops more control over the translation of the mass. They can't do anything else to it. The TLM will still be in Latin. 


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 05:02:52 AM »
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  • That only gives bishops more control over the translation of the mass. They can't do anything else to it. The TLM will still be in Latin.

    Oh, is that all?

    It's not like one word means something different than another or anything, and besides who doesn't miss the "good ole days" when "pro multis" meant "C'mon in! Join the shindig. Want some dip with that?"

    You say "Tomato", I say "Gestapo"; let's turn our heads and cough.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 04:40:47 PM »
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  • https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/09/world/europe/pope-francis-liturgical-reform.html
    .
    For the not-so-brave readers among us, here's the article from the NY Times:
    .
    Pope Francis arriving to lead a Mass in Colombia on Saturday. 
    Credit  Stefano Rellandini/Reuters
    .
    VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis, who has used his absolute authority in the Vatican to decentralize power from Rome, made a widespread change Saturday to the ways, and words, in which Roman Catholics worship by amending Vatican law to give national bishop conferences greater authority in translating liturgical language.

    “It’s hugely important,” said Rita Ferrone, a specialist in Catholic liturgy who writes for Commonweal, a liberal Catholic magazine. She said that by loosening Rome’s grip on the language of prayers, Francis had restored the intention of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and erased some of the rollbacks of his predecessor, Benedict XVI. “It was especially astute that he put it into canon law because it makes it official.”

    Francis has not been shy in efforts to reform the church and has tread on some of its most delicate subjects, from challenging the Roman bureaucracythat runs the church to emphasizing acceptance of gays and the divorced.

    On Saturday he stepped squarely onto the battlefield of the so-called Liturgy Wars, which, especially in the English-speaking church, have divided liberals and conservatives for decades.

    With “Magnum Principium,” a papal Motu Proprio — or a document issued under the pope’s own legal authority – Francis altered a key 2001 instruction by Pope John Paul II that empowered Vatican officials in Rome to ensure local translations adhered to the standard Latin.
    ...(ads)...
    Catholic progressives have advocated a greater use of contemporary idioms consistent with the Second Vatican Council reforms of the 1960s and many bristled under what they considered a heavy and out-of-touch hand from Rome.

    Conservative opponents favored the Latin Mass, or at least more faithful translations to it in the local language, and they wanted the church hierarchy in Rome to ensure global universality and unity by making all of those translations uniform.

    By amending the Code of Canon Law, Francis appears to have sided with the liberals in the debate and shifted the ownership of translations to the local bishops.

    The amendment is a significant development in a liturgical schism that has split Catholics across the world and was evident at the highest echelons of the church.

    In 2007, Benedict himself issued a Motu Proprio increasing access to the celebration of the traditional Latin Mass, a move seen as a microcosm of the church’s shift toward traditionalism during his papacy.

    In changing the law, which will go into effect on Oct. 1, the pope recalled that the Vatican Council entrusted bishops with the “weighty task of introducing the vernacular language into the liturgy.” He added that “in order that the renewal of the whole liturgical life might continue, it seemed opportune that some principles handed on since the time of the council should be more clearly reaffirmed and put into practice.”

    He also acknowledged the bitter feelings that the fights over liturgical language have produced, writing, “It is no surprise that difficulties have arisen” between local churches and the Vatican. He then called for “reciprocal trust” between the local churches and the Vatican department with liturgical oversight, known as the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

    But Vatican observers say trust is in short supply between the pope and the cardinal he selected in 2014 to run the department, Robert Sarah.

    A hero to Vatican conservatives — and for many, a desired candidate in the next conclave to choose a new pope — Cardinal Sarah has been undermined by partisans of Francis who have worked on a committee to loosen the Guinean cardinal’s cherished Latin literalism.

    In 2016, Cardinal Sarah called for priests to celebrate Mass ad orientemor with their backs to the congregation. Francis promptly issued an unusual public rebuke. And in April of this year, Cardinal Sarah sent a letter honoring Benedict’s support of the Latin Mass, asserting that “modern liturgy” had caused devastation and schism. Benedict wrote that “the liturgy is in good hands,” in an afterward to a book the cardinal wrote this year.

    But the liturgy seems to have been in the hands of Francis all along.

    Saturday’s Vatican announcement was made as the pope visited Medellin, Colombia, the site of a landmark 1968 meeting that emphasized local Latin American influence in church decision-making. It also came just weeks after the pope — not one to invoke his magisterial authority — did just that when he announced that the liturgical reform of the Second Vatican Council was “irreversible.”

    Progressive interpretations of those reforms in the 1960s provoked a backlash, and a “reform of the reform” movement, which ultimately had advocates at the top of the church during the reigns of John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.

    In 2001, the Vatican issued the Liturgiam Authenticam, or Authentic Liturgy, instructing that translations from Latin needed to be “in the most exact manner, without omissions or additions in terms of their content.”

    That same year, the Vatican established Vox Clara, or Clear Voice, a committee to scrutinize English-language translations of the texts and prayers included in the Roman Missal. The committee advocated a close fidelity to the Latin.

    In 2006, the Vatican successfully pressured American bishops to accept a more literal translation of well-known English prayers. In 2011, many English-speaking priests panned their effort, finding the language clunky and archaic.

    While noting the unity instilled by the Roman Rite, Francis argued for the beauty and accessibility of local languages. He wrote on Saturday that “vernacular languages themselves, often only in a progressive manner, would be able to become liturgical languages, standing out in a not dissimilar way to liturgical Latin for their elegance of style and the profundity of their concepts with the aim of nourishing the faith.”
    .
    .
    .
    So now English in America, for example, has the advantage of beauty and accessibility, and in a progressive manner could become a liturgical language, not dissimilar to liturgical Latin for elegance of style and profundity of concepts with the aim of nourishing the faith.
    .
    Remember: you heard it here first.
    .
    .
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 11:33:25 PM »
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  • .
    For the not-so-brave readers among us, here's the article from the NY Times:
    .
    Pope Francis arriving to lead a Mass in Colombia on Saturday.
    Credit  Stefano Rellandini/Reuters
    .
    VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis, who has used his absolute authority in the Vatican to decentralize power from Rome, made a widespread change Saturday to the ways, and words, in which Roman Catholics worship by amending Vatican law to give national bishop conferences greater authority in translating liturgical language.

    “It’s hugely important,” said Rita Ferrone, a specialist in Catholic liturgy who writes for Commonweal, a liberal Catholic magazine. She said that by loosening Rome’s grip on the language of prayers, Francis had restored the intention of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and erased some of the rollbacks of his predecessor, Benedict XVI. “It was especially astute that he put it into canon law because it makes it official.”

    Francis has not been shy in efforts to reform the church and has tread on some of its most delicate subjects, from challenging the Roman bureaucracythat runs the church to emphasizing acceptance of gays and the divorced.

    On Saturday he stepped squarely onto the battlefield of the so-called Liturgy Wars, which, especially in the English-speaking church, have divided liberals and conservatives for decades.

    With “Magnum Principium,” a papal Motu Proprio — or a document issued under the pope’s own legal authority – Francis altered a key 2001 instruction by Pope John Paul II that empowered Vatican officials in Rome to ensure local translations adhered to the standard Latin.
    ...(ads)...
    Catholic progressives have advocated a greater use of contemporary idioms consistent with the Second Vatican Council reforms of the 1960s and many bristled under what they considered a heavy and out-of-touch hand from Rome.

    Conservative opponents favored the Latin Mass, or at least more faithful translations to it in the local language, and they wanted the church hierarchy in Rome to ensure global universality and unity by making all of those translations uniform.

    By amending the Code of Canon Law, Francis appears to have sided with the liberals in the debate and shifted the ownership of translations to the local bishops.

    The amendment is a significant development in a liturgical schism that has split Catholics across the world and was evident at the highest echelons of the church.

    In 2007, Benedict himself issued a Motu Proprio increasing access to the celebration of the traditional Latin Mass, a move seen as a microcosm of the church’s shift toward traditionalism during his papacy.

    In changing the law, which will go into effect on Oct. 1, the pope recalled that the Vatican Council entrusted bishops with the “weighty task of introducing the vernacular language into the liturgy.” He added that “in order that the renewal of the whole liturgical life might continue, it seemed opportune that some principles handed on since the time of the council should be more clearly reaffirmed and put into practice.”

    He also acknowledged the bitter feelings that the fights over liturgical language have produced, writing, “It is no surprise that difficulties have arisen” between local churches and the Vatican. He then called for “reciprocal trust” between the local churches and the Vatican department with liturgical oversight, known as the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

    But Vatican observers say trust is in short supply between the pope and the cardinal he selected in 2014 to run the department, Robert Sarah.

    A hero to Vatican conservatives — and for many, a desired candidate in the next conclave to choose a new pope — Cardinal Sarah has been undermined by partisans of Francis who have worked on a committee to loosen the Guinean cardinal’s cherished Latin literalism.

    In 2016, Cardinal Sarah called for priests to celebrate Mass ad orientem, or with their backs to the congregation. Francis promptly issued an unusual public rebuke. And in April of this year, Cardinal Sarah sent a letter honoring Benedict’s support of the Latin Mass, asserting that “modern liturgy” had caused devastation and schism. Benedict wrote that “the liturgy is in good hands,” in an afterward to a book the cardinal wrote this year.

    But the liturgy seems to have been in the hands of Francis all along.

    Saturday’s Vatican announcement was made as the pope visited Medellin, Colombia, the site of a landmark 1968 meeting that emphasized local Latin American influence in church decision-making. It also came just weeks after the pope — not one to invoke his magisterial authority — did just that when he announced that the liturgical reform of the Second Vatican Council was “irreversible.”

    Progressive interpretations of those reforms in the 1960s provoked a backlash, and a “reform of the reform” movement, which ultimately had advocates at the top of the church during the reigns of John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.

    In 2001, the Vatican issued the Liturgiam Authenticam, or Authentic Liturgy, instructing that translations from Latin needed to be “in the most exact manner, without omissions or additions in terms of their content.”

    That same year, the Vatican established Vox Clara, or Clear Voice, a committee to scrutinize English-language translations of the texts and prayers included in the Roman Missal. The committee advocated a close fidelity to the Latin.

    In 2006, the Vatican successfully pressured American bishops to accept a more literal translation of well-known English prayers. In 2011, many English-speaking priests panned their effort, finding the language clunky and archaic.

    While noting the unity instilled by the Roman Rite, Francis argued for the beauty and accessibility of local languages. He wrote on Saturday that “vernacular languages themselves, often only in a progressive manner, would be able to become liturgical languages, standing out in a not dissimilar way to liturgical Latin for their elegance of style and the profundity of their concepts with the aim of nourishing the faith.”
    .
    .
    .
    So now English in America, for example, has the advantage of beauty and accessibility, and in a progressive manner could become a liturgical language, not dissimilar to liturgical Latin for elegance of style and profundity of concepts with the aim of nourishing the faith.
    .
    Remember: you heard it here first.
    .
    .
    .
    I think that rather than reading what the New York Times says we should read from the promulgation itself. After all, when has the New York Times been a good representative of what the Catholic Church teaches?


    Offline poche

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 11:34:58 PM »
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  • Oh, is that all?

    It's not like one word means something different than another or anything, and besides who doesn't miss the "good ole days" when "pro multis" meant "C'mon in! Join the shindig. Want some dip with that?"

    You say "Tomato", I say "Gestapo"; let's turn our heads and cough.
    When there is a dispute over the meaning of a word or phrase in the vernacular then we look to the meaning in Latin. The latin meaning prevails.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 12:02:32 AM »
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  • When there is a dispute over the meaning of a word or phrase in the vernacular then we look to the meaning in Latin. The latin meaning prevails.
    Uh huh...
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 05:08:33 AM »
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  •  :incense:
    Does this mean no more Summorum PONTIFICUM?
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 05:50:40 AM »
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  • Any bets on how long it will take for the U.S. bishops to go back to the translation of the Novus Ordo they had just a few years ago that so many of them liked so much?  Or will the U.S. bishops completely change the U.S. "translation"?  

    Remember that "liturgy" includes more than just the Mass.  Any bets that the rite of baptism will be changed somewhere in the English-speaking world to "translate" the form of the sacrament to read, "the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Sanctifyer" in order to remove the male-centric, sexist form of, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"?

    I predict major "translation" changes within one or two years which will make many rites unrecognizable even as translations.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 05:58:04 AM »
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  • When there is a dispute over the meaning of a word or phrase in the vernacular then we look to the meaning in Latin. The latin meaning prevails.
    Notice what happened there?

    Tacit admission that they differ in meaning, and you're still left with "just" the Latin.
    It's all bull-pats anyway, but thats the problem with lies; they can't cohere.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 07:28:14 AM »
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  • When there is a dispute over the meaning of a word or phrase in the vernacular then we look to the meaning in Latin. The latin meaning prevails.
    In any event, the average Joe in the pew isn't mentally thinking, "Ok, I know they said this, but I have to remember that the actual meaning in Latin is that."  No, he's thinking that the Church teaches this and slowly, by subtle changes, his faith disappears into heresy and he winds up damned to hell for all eternity because he his faith was changed by the prayers he used to worship God.


    Offline AJNC

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 09:15:56 AM »
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  • .
    For the not-so-brave readers among us, here's the article from the NY Times:
    .
    Pope Francis arriving to lead a Mass in Colombia on Saturday.
    Credit  Stefano Rellandini/Reuters
    .
    VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis, who has used his absolute authority in the Vatican to decentralize power from Rome, made a widespread change Saturday to the ways, and words, in which Roman Catholics worship by amending Vatican law to give national bishop conferences greater authority in translating liturgical language.

    “It’s hugely important,” said Rita Ferrone, a specialist in Catholic liturgy who writes for Commonweal, a liberal Catholic magazine. She said that by loosening Rome’s grip on the language of prayers, Francis had restored the intention of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and erased some of the rollbacks of his predecessor, Benedict XVI. “It was especially astute that he put it into canon law because it makes it official.”

    Francis has not been shy in efforts to reform the church and has tread on some of its most delicate subjects, from challenging the Roman bureaucracythat runs the church to emphasizing acceptance of gays and the divorced.

    On Saturday he stepped squarely onto the battlefield of the so-called Liturgy Wars, which, especially in the English-speaking church, have divided liberals and conservatives for decades.

    With “Magnum Principium,” a papal Motu Proprio — or a document issued under the pope’s own legal authority – Francis altered a key 2001 instruction by Pope John Paul II that empowered Vatican officials in Rome to ensure local translations adhered to the standard Latin.
    ...(ads)...
    Catholic progressives have advocated a greater use of contemporary idioms consistent with the Second Vatican Council reforms of the 1960s and many bristled under what they considered a heavy and out-of-touch hand from Rome.

    Conservative opponents favored the Latin Mass, or at least more faithful translations to it in the local language, and they wanted the church hierarchy in Rome to ensure global universality and unity by making all of those translations uniform.

    By amending the Code of Canon Law, Francis appears to have sided with the liberals in the debate and shifted the ownership of translations to the local bishops.

    The amendment is a significant development in a liturgical schism that has split Catholics across the world and was evident at the highest echelons of the church.

    In 2007, Benedict himself issued a Motu Proprio increasing access to the celebration of the traditional Latin Mass, a move seen as a microcosm of the church’s shift toward traditionalism during his papacy.

    In changing the law, which will go into effect on Oct. 1, the pope recalled that the Vatican Council entrusted bishops with the “weighty task of introducing the vernacular language into the liturgy.” He added that “in order that the renewal of the whole liturgical life might continue, it seemed opportune that some principles handed on since the time of the council should be more clearly reaffirmed and put into practice.”

    He also acknowledged the bitter feelings that the fights over liturgical language have produced, writing, “It is no surprise that difficulties have arisen” between local churches and the Vatican. He then called for “reciprocal trust” between the local churches and the Vatican department with liturgical oversight, known as the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

    But Vatican observers say trust is in short supply between the pope and the cardinal he selected in 2014 to run the department, Robert Sarah.

    A hero to Vatican conservatives — and for many, a desired candidate in the next conclave to choose a new pope — Cardinal Sarah has been undermined by partisans of Francis who have worked on a committee to loosen the Guinean cardinal’s cherished Latin literalism.

    In 2016, Cardinal Sarah called for priests to celebrate Mass ad orientem, or with their backs to the congregation. Francis promptly issued an unusual public rebuke. And in April of this year, Cardinal Sarah sent a letter honoring Benedict’s support of the Latin Mass, asserting that “modern liturgy” had caused devastation and schism. Benedict wrote that “the liturgy is in good hands,” in an afterward to a book the cardinal wrote this year.

    But the liturgy seems to have been in the hands of Francis all along.

    Saturday’s Vatican announcement was made as the pope visited Medellin, Colombia, the site of a landmark 1968 meeting that emphasized local Latin American influence in church decision-making. It also came just weeks after the pope — not one to invoke his magisterial authority — did just that when he announced that the liturgical reform of the Second Vatican Council was “irreversible.”

    Progressive interpretations of those reforms in the 1960s provoked a backlash, and a “reform of the reform” movement, which ultimately had advocates at the top of the church during the reigns of John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.

    In 2001, the Vatican issued the Liturgiam Authenticam, or Authentic Liturgy, instructing that translations from Latin needed to be “in the most exact manner, without omissions or additions in terms of their content.”

    That same year, the Vatican established Vox Clara, or Clear Voice, a committee to scrutinize English-language translations of the texts and prayers included in the Roman Missal. The committee advocated a close fidelity to the Latin.

    In 2006, the Vatican successfully pressured American bishops to accept a more literal translation of well-known English prayers. In 2011, many English-speaking priests panned their effort, finding the language clunky and archaic.

    While noting the unity instilled by the Roman Rite, Francis argued for the beauty and accessibility of local languages. He wrote on Saturday that “vernacular languages themselves, often only in a progressive manner, would be able to become liturgical languages, standing out in a not dissimilar way to liturgical Latin for their elegance of style and the profundity of their concepts with the aim of nourishing the faith.”
    .
    .
    .
    So now English in America, for example, has the advantage of beauty and accessibility, and in a progressive manner could become a liturgical language, not dissimilar to liturgical Latin for elegance of style and profundity of concepts with the aim of nourishing the faith.
    .
    Remember: you heard it here first.
    .
    .
    .
    September 16, 2017 - Sts. Cornelius, Pope & Cyprian, Bishops & Martyrs
     Semidouble Feast

    Newcardinal Velasio De Paolis Has Died
     He Is the Third Newcardinal Opponent of Francis-Bergoglio to Die in Two Months
    From: Peter, the TRADITIO Network's Canadian Correspondent

    Newcardinal Velasio De Paolis Died on September 9, 2017
     He Was One of the Strongest Opponents of the Heretic Newpope Francis-Bergoglio
     Now Three Newcardinals Who Opposed the Heresy of Francis-Bergoglio
    \ Are Dead in Just the Last Two Weeks
     Have We Returned to Renaissance Times when Evil Popes Did in Their Enemies?
     If This Bergoglian Trend Continues
     The Next Two Newcardinals to Die Will Be Brandmuller and Burke
    Dear TRADITIO Fathers:
    On September 9, 2017, Newcardinal Velasio De Paolis, C.S., died at age 81 of an undisclosed cause. Who is he? He was one of the strongest opponents of Francis-Bergoglio from the day of his election in 2013. At that time he had already retired from his Newcurial post (in 2011 at the age of 76) as Prefect of Prefecture of Economic Affairs, which governs the property of Newchurch.
    De Paolis was one month shy of his 82nd birthday when he died today. On September 7, 2017, Newcardinal Carlo Caffara, a signer of the letter denouncing Francis-Bergoglio for his heretical March 19, 2016, document on marriage, Amoris laetitia, died. On July 5, 2017, Newcardinal Joachim Meisner, another signer, died.
    This is beginning to look like a pattern. De Paolis was known to be vehemently against Bergoglio. Now he's dead. Who's next? There are still surviving outspoken Newcardinal opponents of Bergoglio Mauro Piacenza and Angelo Bagnasco, not to mention the last two signers, Newcardinal Ray "Bully" Burke and Newcardinal Walter Brandmuller.
    There is a certain fish oil which causes a massive heart attack. It leaves no trace. The Bergoglian regime is becoming eerily reminiscent of the regimes of the bad popes of the Renaissance, who killed their enemies with poisoned wine!

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 09:31:14 AM »
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  • September 16, 2017 - Sts. Cornelius, Pope & Cyprian, Bishops & Martyrs
     Semidouble Feast

    Newcardinal Velasio De Paolis Has Died
     He Is the Third Newcardinal Opponent of Francis-Bergoglio to Die in Two Months
    From: Peter, the TRADITIO Network's Canadian Correspondent

    Newcardinal Velasio De Paolis Died on September 9, 2017
     He Was One of the Strongest Opponents of the Heretic Newpope Francis-Bergoglio
     Now Three Newcardinals Who Opposed the Heresy of Francis-Bergoglio
    \ Are Dead in Just the Last Two Weeks
     Have We Returned to Renaissance Times when Evil Popes Did in Their Enemies?
     If This Bergoglian Trend Continues
     The Next Two Newcardinals to Die Will Be Brandmuller and Burke
    Dear TRADITIO Fathers:
    On September 9, 2017, Newcardinal Velasio De Paolis, C.S., died at age 81 of an undisclosed cause. Who is he? He was one of the strongest opponents of Francis-Bergoglio from the day of his election in 2013. At that time he had already retired from his Newcurial post (in 2011 at the age of 76) as Prefect of Prefecture of Economic Affairs, which governs the property of Newchurch.
    De Paolis was one month shy of his 82nd birthday when he died today. On September 7, 2017, Newcardinal Carlo Caffara, a signer of the letter denouncing Francis-Bergoglio for his heretical March 19, 2016, document on marriage, Amoris laetitia, died. On July 5, 2017, Newcardinal Joachim Meisner, another signer, died.
    This is beginning to look like a pattern. De Paolis was known to be vehemently against Bergoglio. Now he's dead. Who's next? There are still surviving outspoken Newcardinal opponents of Bergoglio Mauro Piacenza and Angelo Bagnasco, not to mention the last two signers, Newcardinal Ray "Bully" Burke and Newcardinal Walter Brandmuller.
    There is a certain fish oil which causes a massive heart attack. It leaves no trace. The Bergoglian regime is becoming eerily reminiscent of the regimes of the bad popes of the Renaissance, who killed their enemies with poisoned wine!
    1. You are likely thinking of Fugu Poisioning
    2. Alternate explaination? He was 82.
    3. All these "opponents" of Feygele Frank are and were, at best, paper Tiberian Tigers. Why kill impotent people who have one hair sticking out of Hell as it is? It's like having a "Girl Scout" pezzed. Their inaction shows that they were and are, at least the not dead ones, all "... sound and fury, signifying nothing."  They're all talk. Standard Conciliar ops. Reminds me of "that kid" that talked crap in school as they were diving for the petticoats.

    We don't get to suspend virtue even to vanquish our enemies.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 11:31:35 PM »
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  • Claire Chretien Follow Claire

     Abortion ,  Daca ,  Donald Trump , Immigration ,  Pope Francis , President Trump
    September 11, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – Pope Francis challenged President Trump on his pro-life views in a new interview, questioning whether Trump is actually pro-life because of his immigration stances. 
    Aboard the papal plane on September 10, Pope Francis criticized the U.S. president over his plans to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. DACA allows children of illegal immigrants who were illegally brought into the country to remain and apply for work permits.
    "I have heard the President of the United States speak," said Pope Francis as translated and reported by the National Catholic Reporter. "He presents himself as a pro-life man. If he is a good pro-lifer, he should understand that the family is the cradle of life and you must defend its unity."
    He was answering a Mexican journalist's question. 
    "Removing young people from their family is not a thing that bears good fruit, neither for the young person nor the family," the pope continued, admitting "he has not studied the specifics of the DACA program," according to NCR
    "Young people today need to re-find their roots," Pope Francis continued. "And anything that goes against this robs them of hope."
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    Online Nadir

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    Re: Francis strikes again
    « Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 11:58:02 PM »
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  • I think that rather than reading what the New York Times says we should read from the promulgation itself. After all, when has the New York Times been a good representative of what the Catholic Church teaches?
    By the same token, when has the New York Times Francis been a good representative of what the Catholic Church teaches? Six of one and half a dozen of t'other.

     

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