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Author Topic: Francis saw his demons  (Read 4291 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Francis saw his demons
« Reply #120 on: April 25, 2025, 01:52:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat on April 25, 2025, 01:46:09 PM
    Half of your comments are strawman arguments and non sequitur.
    You're a crypto-Montinian defending a scuм bag anti-pope who never made one iota public abjuration of his heresies and anti-Catholicism.
    :laugh1: You don't know if he abjured his heresies or not.  In danger of death, he's not obligated to take out an ad in a newspaper or to give a public speech.  He's not going to personally send you a letter.  In danger of death, to abjure one's heresies, it can all be done in confession.  

    Outside of danger of death, yes, a public abjuration is typically done.  But in danger of death, nope.  So none of us would ever know.
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    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #121 on: April 25, 2025, 01:54:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: WorldsAway on April 24, 2025, 06:56:38 AM
    17 And now, brethren, I know that you did it through ignorance, as did also your rulers.
    You fool. You slithery worm. Your protestant interpretation is taking that verso out of context. The Catholic Church has expressed many times the "ignorance" of the jews is because THEY WILLED it. That means it's the fault of their own, and they are collectively guilty of Deicide which is passed down through their generations except those who are baptized with water and Spirit into Jesus Christ.

    Just one example of many of the Church's teaching on this issue by Saint Augustine:

    "The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as “the Stone” (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming." ~ St. Augustine
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    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #122 on: April 25, 2025, 03:27:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat on April 25, 2025, 01:54:17 PM
    You fool. You slithery worm. Your protestant interpretation is taking that verso out of context. The Catholic Church has expressed many times the "ignorance" of the jews is because THEY WILLED it. That means it's the fault of their own, and they are collectively guilty of Deicide which is passed down through their generations except those who are baptized with water and Spirit into Jesus Christ.

    Just one example of many of the Church's teaching on this issue by Saint Augustine:

    "The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as “the Stone” (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming." ~ St. Augustine
    Christ still suffered and died for the Jews who “willed” His death.  
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    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #123 on: April 25, 2025, 03:53:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 25, 2025, 03:27:10 PM
    Christ still suffered and died for the Jews who “willed” His death. 
    Red herring and strawman fallacy. I never said He didn't. But salvation is only for those baptized into Him with water and Spirit and live His Word. 

    Back to Bergoglio. He was anti-Catholic and consented to iniquity, even offences that cry to Heaven for vengeance. He never made any public abjuration of these offenses. He is likely damned and getting reamed by Satan and Asmodeus. Your "well, the existence of unicorns are still possible" (he couldn't made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died) argument is not a sound defense of Bergoglio the scuм bag. 

    You are a crypto-Montinian. God is going to cut you down, boy. 
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    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #124 on: April 25, 2025, 04:36:56 PM »
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    Your "well, the existence of unicorns are still possible" (he couldn't made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died) argument is not a sound defense of Bergoglio the scuм bag.
    :facepalm:  It's not a defense of his sins.  Do you not understand the difference between 'temporal punishment due to sins' and being forgiven?  God forgives; temporal punishment remains.  A sinner who is forgiven still has to pay for his sins.

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    You are a crypto-Montinian. God is going to cut you down, boy.
    Again, you seem to be arguing that if God forgave Francis on his deathbed (and our Faith tells us that God wants all sinners to repent), that somehow this means the sinner's crimes are no longer evil.  :facepalm:

    Your logic on this topic is totally bonkers.

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    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #125 on: April 25, 2025, 04:59:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 25, 2025, 04:36:56 PM
    :facepalm:  It's not a defense of his sins. 
    Another strawman.

    I'm refuting your unreasonable argument for Borgolio's salvation over the extremely minute probability that he made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died.


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    Again, you seem to be arguing that if God forgave Francis on his deathbed (and our Faith tells us that God wants all sinners to repent), that somehow this means the sinner's crimes are no longer evil.  :facepalm:
    You should be covering your face but in an act of shame because what you wrote makes absolutely no sense. It's a desperate attempt at another strawman but is afflicted with the most exaggerated retardation.


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    Your logic on this topic is totally bonkers.
    Your "logic" on this topic is deceitful and retarded. Just like a true Montinian.


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    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #126 on: April 25, 2025, 05:29:59 PM »
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    I'm refuting your unreasonable argument for Borgolio's salvation over the extremely minute probability that he made a perfect act of contrition and converted right before he died.
    It's not an argument.  I'm simply stating the facts --- we don't know if Francis is saved or damned. 

    You are arguing based on probability (i.e. there's a 99.99% chance he's damned).  I'm saying, this is a worldly way of looking at it.  Because spiritual grace is more powerful (and can't be seen or measured), so probability is meaningless.

    Anyone who saw Saul (the future St Paul) riding on his horse, on his way to persecute Christians, would've NEVER expected that God would intervene and infuse his soul with the grace of conversion.  The probability of Saul converting was 0.01%.  But it happened.  Nobody expected it. 

    God's grace >>> probability.

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    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #127 on: April 25, 2025, 05:37:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat on April 25, 2025, 01:54:17 PM
    You fool. You slithery worm. Your protestant interpretation is taking that verso out of context. The Catholic Church has expressed many times the "ignorance" of the jews is because THEY WILLED it. That means it's the fault of their own, and they are collectively guilty of Deicide which is passed down through their generations except those who are baptized with water and Spirit into Jesus Christ.

    Just one example of many of the Church's teaching on this issue by Saint Augustine:

    "The Jews knew that Christ was the son of David. And even now they hope for His Coming. It is hidden from them that He has come, but it is hidden because they willed it so. For, not acknowledging Him on the cross, the knowledge of Him reigning in glory should not be theirs ... Why are the Jews hoping for what has already come, and not fearful for what is to come? For Our Lord Jesus Christ ... referred Himself as “the Stone” (Matthew xxi.44), that whoever stumbles upon it shall be bruised; but upon whom it shall fall, it will grind to powder ... Lying on the ground, it shakes whoever falls over it; coming from on high, it crushes the proud. The Jews have already been shaken by their previous stumble. What awaits them is to be crushed by His Coming." ~ St. Augustine
    What on earth are you talking about? This was the extent of my "interpretation":

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    the Jews should have known Him and accepted Him as the Messiah..but the majority did not because the Pharisees had "[made] void the word of God by [their] own tradition", and taught the Jews "doctrines and commandments of men"

    I agree with what St. Augustine wrote and I believe the Jews to be guilty of Deicide. You are the one novelly limiting "They know not what they do" to the ignorance of the Romans, when there is no precedent in excluding the willful ignorance of the Jews. This is backed up by the verses I already quoted
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    If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you [John 15:108

    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #128 on: April 25, 2025, 05:40:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 25, 2025, 05:29:59 PM
    Anyone who saw Saul (the future St Paul) riding on his horse, on his way to persecute Christians, would've NEVER expected that God would intervene and infuse his soul with the grace of conversion.  The probability of Saul converting was 0.01%.  But it happened.  Nobody expected it. 
    This is a fair assessment but here's the thing: if Bergoglio acted on graces offered by God to make a perfect act of contrition (or receive last Rites) and convert, why not allow him, at least for some time, to live a bit longer as a CATHOLIC in public ministry for His greater glory, just as St. Paul, after his conversion, served God in public ministry for His greater glory? Why not make Bergoglio a living testimony for Catholic truth, just as God made St. Paul (former murderer against Christians) a living testimony for Christ's truth? 

    So, for the sake of the faithful and lest they be scandalized, it is prudent to call out the fact the Borgoglio remained publicly obstinate in his anti-Catholicism until death, hence, he must be getting reamed by Asmodeus and Satan for eternity. 
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    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #129 on: April 25, 2025, 06:04:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat on April 25, 2025, 05:40:44 PM
    This is a fair assessment but here's the thing: if Bergoglio acted on graces offered by God to make a perfect act of contrition (or receive last Rites) and convert, why not allow him, at least for some time, to live a bit longer as a CATHOLIC in public ministry for His greater glory, just as St. Paul, after his conversion, served God in public ministry for His greater glory? Why not make Bergoglio a living testimony for Catholic truth, just as God made St. Paul (former murderer against Christians) a living testimony for Christ's truth?
    I have no idea.  Why did God allow the life-long criminal on the cross to convert?  God could've converted him earlier, but that didn't happen.

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    So, for the sake of the faithful and lest they be scandalized, it is prudent to call out the fact the Borgoglio remained publicly obstinate in his anti-Catholicism until death, hence, he must be getting reamed by Asmodeus and Satan for eternity.

    Absolutely not.  The faithful are ALREADY scandalized by Francis.  Him converting doesn't change anything.  Just like St Paul converting didn't change his past, nor make his crimes against Christianity any better.

    The past is the past.  Evil deeds remain evil deeds, even if the person converts.  Scandals of the past cannot be undone.  

    The Church does not presume that any person is in hell.  Thus, we cannot either.
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    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #130 on: April 25, 2025, 06:20:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 25, 2025, 06:04:05 PM
    I have no idea.  Why did God allow the life-long criminal on the cross to convert?
    But he converted in public on a cross and became a public living testimony of the truth of Christ, as brief as it was, but the quality of testimony is what matters. So God willed his conversion to be public so others who are lost might see the light and become saved in Christ.

    So if Borgolgio perfectly repented of his sins and converted, he would've been a great public living testimony for Catholic truth, even for just a little while before God taking him Home. But that didn't happen. Sure, we humans, many times, can't understand the mysteries of God and His will but it's not unreasonable to think God didn't allow Borgoglio to live longer and more time in public ministry because he never repented and converted.

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    Absolutely not.  The faithful are ALREADY scandalized by Francis.  Him converting doesn't change anything.  Just like St Paul converting didn't change his past, nor make his crimes against Christianity any better.
    Again, it's about saving at least some souls now and in the future. It's not about the past. The past is done. Just as St. Paul's ministry was about converting people to Jesus Christ not about undoing his past crimes against Christians.

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    The Church does not presume that any person is in hell.  Thus, we cannot either.
    The Church knows and defines that anyone who dies outside of the Church or dies in mortal sin is in hell.
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    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #131 on: April 25, 2025, 06:59:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat on April 24, 2025, 04:45:39 AM
    Absolutely. When Christ said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do", He was referring to the Romans who didn't know He was the Son of God and Messiah. They didn't realize they were being manipulated by the jews to crucify Him. The jews knew exactly what they were doing. They are guilty of Deicide. Jews are enemies of God. That is Catholic teaching.
    I agree with this. The Pharisees and Sadducees lived in the Temple and studied scripture every waking moment for their entire lives. They knew EXACTLY who Jesus was as He fulfilled every prophecy of the coming Messiah.
    But since the jews had a regular habit of killing the prophets, it was not out of the question for them to  kill Christ since He was NOT THE MESSIAH that they wanted. They wanted an earthly king so that the jews could rule the material world.
    Some things never change. 
    The Pagan Romans on the other hand, hadn't a clue who they were brutally killing.
    It was the jews that instructed the soldiers to mock Christ and call Him King at the foot of the Cross.
    "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" was for the pagan Romans, and the Father did forgive them, as  Christendom was rooted in Rome thereafter.
     

    1 Thessalonians 2 14:15
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #132 on: April 25, 2025, 07:07:06 PM »
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    but it's not unreasonable to think God didn't allow Borgoglio to live longer and more time in public ministry because he never repented and converted.
    Yeah it is unreasonable.  Because our religion is not based on what we can see alone.  Salvation is between each person and God, much of which is unknowable to the external.  


    Empiricism is a heresy.  
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #133 on: April 25, 2025, 07:12:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on April 25, 2025, 06:59:56 PM
    I agree with this. The Pharisees and Sadducees lived in the Temple and studied scripture every waking moment for their entire lives. They knew EXACTLY who Jesus was as He fulfilled every prophecy of the coming Messiah.
    But since the jews had a regular habit of killing the prophets, it was not out of the question for them to  kill Christ since He was NOT THE MESSIAH that they wanted. They wanted an earthly king so that the jews could rule the material world.
    Some things never change. 
    The Pagan Romans on the other hand, hadn't a clue who they were brutally killing.
    It was the jews that instructed the soldiers to mock Christ and call Him King at the foot of the Cross.
    "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" was for the pagan Romans, and the Father did forgive them, as  Christendom was rooted in Rome thereafter.
     

    1 Thessalonians 2 14:15
    Yes, the Jews knowingly killed Christ.  And Christ still died for them.  

    To say that Christ only died for some, but not all men, for all times, is heresy.  

    The GRACES will not be ACCEPTED by all men (ie the “for many” in the Mass), but Christ's SACRIFICE was for all.  You must distinguish. 
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    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Francis saw his demons
    « Reply #134 on: April 25, 2025, 07:23:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 25, 2025, 07:12:10 PM
    To say that Christ only died for some, but not all men, for all times, is heresy.
    Stop your strawman fallacy. You've committed this several times already.

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    Empiricism is a heresy.
    So is universal salvation and Montinianism.
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    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler
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